The Growth Plan and Strategy for New Brokers Looking to Outlast the First 9 Months

[00:00] Hi and welcome to Broker Tools, where we unpack the tools, systems, and strategies that help brokers optimize the way they work. I'm Katie, your host, and today we are talking about baselining success in your broker business. Brett from Mr. Mentor is joining us for this conversation, and we are diving into the foundational skills, systems, and knowledge that brokers need to thrive, not just survive this industry. We'll break down what it takes to have a genuinely healthy practice and where brokers unknowingly limit their growth and how to build systems that support your business goals. Brett, welcome to the pod. >> Thank you, Katie. It's lovely to be here and such an important topic and such a broad topic, too. So, I'm sure we won't cover everything, but uh hopefully we'll scratch the surface of what's important. >> Yes. And I think, you know, as you and I were talking earlier, we've already done a couple of podcasts with other uh different broker coaches and we're noticing that there is like niches that

[01:02] you each all focus in. What would you say your core area of support is? >> Yeah. So, the separation I would make is we deal with people looking to come into the industry. Uh that's one of our core markets. So, people that have um completed their certificate for a diploma, they want to start their own brokerage. The entry point to to become a broker is still self-employment. Uh there's not many jobs salary roles available for brand new brokers. And if you go on to seek and have a look, it's all we want someone that's two years plus. Um because the industry requires two years of mentoring. And uh if um businesses looking to pay an employee are looking for people that have completed that initial two years. So our first market would be that brand new uh up to two years uh in in business. And then the second market is once the broker reaches that point of maturity within their business and they're

[02:05] successfully moving, it's they will reach a point in time when they're looking to upskill um and perhaps move into other types of lending such as asset finance and commercial. And that's when we then re-engage again uh for to provide those technical skills around those those uh product suites. >> Yes. So, you're saying um if you're like kind of brand new to market, maybe you've just finished a certificate for um and if you're looking for growth and development and knowing how to do what's next, especially if you haven't had a baking background, >> yeah, >> then people should come to you. >> Yeah. that uh that first year uh or first two years is um is really a time of for a broker to understand whether it's the right industry for them. Yeah. Uh like any >> like any industry, we have a failure rate or we have a success rate is a nicer way to put it. Um but certain people do find when they start in the industry that they reach a point where

[03:08] they just uh make a conscious decision or an informed decision that it was it's not right for them for various reasons and there's some common traits around that. Um yeah so it is tough the first two years but it's tough in any industry to start a new business. I think the benefit with broking is that uh it's a fairly low resource business to get started in and you don't need a shopfront. You don't need stocking. So, uh really it's a it's an advisory business that's based around your phone and your laptop and uh your knowledge, your your understanding of your craft. >> Yeah. And and I guess coming back to the success rate and I guess maybe failure rate um what are those common traits that you are noticing that um make someone thrive versus survive in the industry? >> Yeah. Yeah. Great question. Um I think one of the biggest challenges we see is cash flow. Uh this is a commissionbased industry as a self-employed broker. Um,

[04:11] and if you think of the life cycle of a home loan, let's say you were my client Kate and I was uh I met you for the first time and I we spend time together. I hear your story. You tell me what you're looking to achieve and share what your current status is and what your financial position is and I take a lot of that information away and do some research and work out what options exist for you. Can we even help you? Who would lend you money? and we come up with some solutions and you select the one you like the most or the one we recommend. We apply to the bank. The bank hopefully approves the loan and then we need to get that loan to settlement. Now that could be a refinance. It could be a purchase. They'll have various timelines but either way settlement may not take place for two or three months. Now I'm not paid for my work until the month after settlement. So the timeline between us having that first conversation to me receiving any revenue could be five or six months. >> Yeah. >> So there's a cash flow gap when brokers start and so and they are starting a business. So we see that if they don't

[05:14] have enough capital behind them or to cover not only setting up the business and covering the business costs in that first six months until cash flow comes. Plus, you still need to put food on the table, pay your own mortgage, put the kids through school, etc. So, those living expenses needs to need to be covered either by capital or cash flow from a source. So, we do see some people don't budget well enough when they come into the industry and they do run out of cash. >> The second the second issue we see is uh and this is a we're an industry that it's a it's a victim of its own success, Katie. We've uh 76% of home loans I think last year came through mortgage brokers. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's the predominant channel of choice for consumers to apply for credit for home loans. Um significantly greater than people going to the banks direct or online models etc. Brokers still hold that wonderful position of trust within the community and for good reason as well. Yeah. You know we are we are

[06:17] regulated by the best interest duty which doesn't apply to banks. So, uh, clients know they're getting the best outcome through a broker. So, with 76% of home loans coming through brokers, if I'm a new broker and I'm looking to start my business and I go out to all of my networks and ask for their support, 76% of them are likely to already have a broker and maybe being serviced very well by that broker. So, in order to win their business, I I need to convince them it's worth breaking that existing relationship >> with me. So it is getting harder to generate clients. And so the second reason we see brokers don't succeed is they just can't find the clients. Uh so they need to the two things we recommend a broker does when they get started is learn your craft because you need to know what you're doing. You need to be good at >> you need to be knowledgeable and understand what you're doing in your job. And that also gives you confidence. And that confidence shines through where you speak to a client, they go, "Yeah, I like this guy. He He knows his stuff. Yeah. As opposed to, you know, you know

[07:19] what it's like when you walk into a bar and you order a drink and the bar staff are brand new and they don't know how to mix your favorite cocktail. >> You can tell, you know, you can tell they muck it up. Yeah. >> They make it way too sweet. >> Yeah. So, that's just a drink, right? People are a little bit more um selective when choosing their advisor in the home loan space. So that confidence which comes through your skills that you've learned are very important. But you so you need to learn your craft but you also need to get out and find customers because as we say you can be the best broker in Australia but if you don't have any customers you won't succeed. >> Yeah. It's almost like that um singer phenomenon. You can be the most amazing singer on earth but unless you know how to market yourself >> you're not going to land the record deal. >> Yeah. Yep. You'll be standing on the corner of Burke and Swanson busking. >> Well, look, to be fair, it has worked out for one of our Australian singers, but

[08:24] >> coming back to brokery. Um, I guess you were talking about skills. So, sure, know your craft, but what other skills? Um, >> yeah, skills. Uh, >> obviously, busting is not one of them. >> Over time, uh, you need processes. Um so efficiency so and and the need for deep and detailed process grows over time as your business grow and there's some significant shifts happen in brokerages over time. So when when when I start as a broker in my first year or two my main focus will be on client acquisition and getting new clients into my business. However once I've got that new client I want to keep that client. So, I also then need to have a process for customer care. I need to be contacting you, Katie, every year at least saying, "Hey, Katie, can't believe a year's gone since you moved into your new home. How's it going? You know, how's how's Wolfy the dog? And um by the way, I've checked uh I've checked your current interest rate

[09:27] and your terms with your current bank and and um we've repriced it. um it's the best we can do at the moment or we've got this discount for you or um what else have you got in mind? We need to have a process for all that. Um so when you are looking for for something in the future, we're front of mind. >> We're more top of mind when you want to come back. So um so that we need a process for that. So our business activities will change over time and there will come a time when we also need to look at okay well what tools do we need now to automate? Uh we we'll start with a a system that our aggregator provides and that will provide everything we need within reason for the start but as time progresses and our business matures we may want to look at other solutions. There are certainly some solutions we recommend that brokers consider upfront and they're um things like um if I can name businesses uh there's a product called quickly which is outstanding there's um >> y

[10:29] >> uh there's a number of policy research tools uh brokers bible and thrive where you can research policy uh there's there's a whole range of tools available document collection tools uh file invite cash deck etc and these are additional subscription models, but it's worth investing the money to create that efficiency within your business. So, you build those tools and tech into your process early and that creates uh space and time for you to do other important activities. Uh but that, you know, every business is slightly different. Um >> yeah, >> some some people choose to for that c that initial cash flow boost, they may choose to work part-time in a in a salaried role or a part-time role to maintain cash flow. We call that the transition model. >> Yeah. So, and you know that business will grow slower because that person's not involved in the business to the full extent whereas someone who is able to commit full-time to their brokerage will are likely to grow it quicker. Yeah.

[11:34] >> Yeah. Okay. And I guess when we think about the foundations, let's just imagine you had enough money to support yourself. I think did you say like a good starting figure is at at least 20k like I mean obviously you probably want more than that but like as in a start outational figure. >> Yeah. Yeah. We we recommend uh minimum of 10,000 in capital to get started because that will cover all of your aggregation fees, your licensing, your insuranceances, your memberships of industry bodies and ombbudsmen plus your training and mentoring. that will cover that for the first six months and by that time you should have some cash flow dripping in. What that doesn't cover of course is your living expenses. Now we all have a different set of living expenses depending on our family circumstances and you know our own financial situation. So uh that's a different matter but that still needs to be accounted for but but the 10,000 we recommend is purely for the business to

[12:36] get that start. >> Yeah. to get that started. And when you're getting started, say you've you've picked your aggregator, you've uh found uh a niche maybe even that you really want to tap into um and you're going out to market. What next should you be looking at to make sure that you can stabilize your growth? >> Yeah. So, so you've you've actually opened a couple of cans of worm there. So let's start with selecting an aggregator. So it's an interesting um there's a few interesting views on this. Our view is that the actual first partner you a broker's wise to select is their mentor. Uh now the reason for that is part partly it's systemic in that uh in order to join an aggregator you need to have joined an industry body. In order to join an industry body you need to have selected your mentor and have a letter from your mentor confirming that that mentor is mentoring. >> Oh okay. I didn't realize that. Yeah. So you have your mentor letter, you go to

[13:39] your industry body, secure your membership, then your aggregator is able to process your application to join that aggregator and your lency to appoint you as a credit rep. So the mentor actually is the start of the process. Um and mentoring is a bit of a minefield. It's it's not it's not like broking. It's unregulated. So there are all different types of mentoring services available. um some are professional mentoring businesses such as ourselves and this is you know this is all we do training and mentoring for this industry so we're we're very narrow and deep in our focus um but the criteria to be a mentor is a fairly low bar and uh there are a number of individuals who do mentor on the side as well um and and you know the price points will vary but I would say um I would recommend that when a broker is looking at that is to not skimp on the quality of their training and education because coming back to the confidence piece and the capacity to service your client. Uh you need that knowledge and

[14:42] you need that support. Um and the aggregation choice is a really interesting one as well. There are multiple different ways to come into this industry. >> It really depends on what the individual's looking for. Um some aggregators won't deal with new brokers. They just sit they go, "Look, it's not our market. We're not geared, we're not structured to take new to industry brokers. So we won't so understanding that's an important part. Um and there are a number of brokerages and sub aggregators that uh specialize in this space as well as some aggregators. Um so it's really just understanding who who plays in that space to join. The second party and that's certainly something that you know we do a lot of guidance with in those conversations around helping brokers. We find that when we receive a call from someone who's got this for a diploma, they often don't know what questions to ask. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, a lot of that conversation is unpacking what exactly are they looking for? What what's their vision for their business? Do they understand they're starting a business? Yeah. >> Yeah. And I guess it's also like the

[15:45] qualifications of what does good look like? >> What does good look like? That's a great question. But we certainly go through all that. your question about um finding your niche. I I don't think brokers find their niche for a couple of years. >> I think when most brokers start, they um they want to deal with every opportunity. >> That doesn't mean their marketing needs to be that broad. I think if we see that marketing is more and this is your space, of course, marketing is more successful when it's targeted to a niche because it cuts through and people hear the message. people that want to hear the message will actually be attracted by it. Uh so I think a broker that goes out the market saying we do home loans, investment loans, first home buyers, business loans, car loans, commercial loans, it's too broad of lost interest. If you get a little bit niche and and target your market and speak directly to them, you're more than likely So you can do that >> at the same time and still try and service everyone, you know, not miss an opportunity. Um, but once you do find

[16:48] your niche, I think it's important to to play to that space as well, become the expert in that because you'll be really good at it. Yeah. Still don't ignore the other business, still have opportunities or ways to service that business. And I guess the best example I can give you is if I love residential lending and I'm particularly focused on upgraders and investors, >> people have already owned their home. They're now got enough capital to either move out of the into a bigger home or they want to start investing in property. and I've got some self-employed clients who need commercial lending services. That's not my space. >> I still need to know enough to be able to identify that opportunity to be able to have the conversation with the client and have the conversation with the client's accountant, but I may not be the practitioner who does the business. I may have a commercial broker who's an expert in that space that I partner with and say, "Look, Katie, look, this is great. I can see what you need for your business here. let me bring my commercial expert in for um to assist with this. >> Yeah. So, I'm still assisting my client. I'm saving my client within my

[17:50] portfolio, making sure they're getting serviced well. I've got a trusted partner looking after it. We've got a really nice arrangement where their customer care um looks like mine. Yeah. So, my clients have a similar experience. >> We we've got a shared revenue model going and uh everyone's happy. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, it's really that cross-selling um, system and um, I it actually sent me back to the days of when I used to do insurance claims um, in a call center. Um, and so you always had to listen for opportunities within that. Sure, you were filing a claim for water damage or car damage, but someone might mention something that um, h you know was related and you go, "Hey, here is an opportunity for you." Um, and I guess insurance is also one of those things within your arm that you can have as an add-on as well. >> It's a really good point you make and and and I I've always expected my broker to not only know mortgage broking really

[18:54] well, but to also have a good understanding of accounting, a good understanding of financial planning and a good understanding of insuranceances. Not to be able to do the business, but to be identify when I need to speak to a professional in that space. And then hopefully if I don't have a professional advisor in that space to refer me to someone who they trust and know that can look after my needs. Yeah. So I think the opportunity for a a broker to continue to learn never ends. There's always something to learn. Um and and not only uh new skills and new uh understanding of different markets, but also just to keep up with the changing market. The the the mortgage broking market today is not what it was even five years ago. It's changed significantly. Yeah. So, you've got to stay up to date or you go back. >> Yeah. And um I guess this is those aspects where you know if there are skills that might be holding a broker back, it's it's probably curiosity and ability to uh look for opportunities. Is

[19:58] that what you're saying? Or like as in being too narrow focused on one >> No, I I think the curiosity thing is really important. Um you know, read the industry news, subscribe to the AFR, you know, understand what's going on in the whole financial market. Just be genuinely curious about all matters financial, specialize and be great at your part of it that what you're advising on, but understand the broader picture as well. Um, so you can have those informed conversations even real estate and and I'm sure most brokers do this anyway and you probably do as well, Katie. If you go on holidays, I'm sure you pick up the real, you know, you walk past the local real estate and have a look in the window and see what propertyy's selling for you. >> Yeah. I remember hanging out at McMahon's Point and there was a a whole lot of like newsletter things and you're just sitting there while you're waiting for the boat looking at it. >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Oh, I could buy a property here." >> Yeah. So, so that's that's curiosity. Yeah. Curiosity is fantastic and and

[21:03] it's then having that genuine interest in it. Um, and I think one of the great things about this industry, about this profession, if I can use that term, please, uh, is that brokers actually really love sharing information with other brokers. Even though we're at that 76% mark, and yes, we are competitors with one another, there's still this underlying behavior in our industry, which is fantastic, where we share information and news, and we assist one another. And and I think this is very much demonstrated by the number of free groups that exist in market that you know like finance and coffee and etc that brokers can join and ask for peer assistance with >> questions they have. Yeah, >> it's a so I I guess in order to succeed you really want to nerd out um on this particular topic. you want to meet other like-minded people who actually co- share the love and the joy of finding a great opportunity for a client. Um, and then I guess build out your network is

[22:08] probably the next part of that >> because once you you get into industry, you >> you don't it's not that you don't want to network with other brokers, but you can't like as in you want to expand the network to people who could possibly refer people to you and other brokers are unlikely to do that because they want them themselves. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, and there's there's also a couple of different thoughts on what a successful brokerage is. >> So, for example, let's say I'm a broker with a business that is primarily a marketing firm and is generating a lot of leads and opportunity. My conversion rate may be low because they're cold leads and I need to build a relationship and get that trust before I'll be able to convert the lead, but I'll have plenty of people to work with and and you know, clients to try and convert. And perhaps the structure of my business is that I'm more transactional. I'm really just looking to convert as many as possible. And >> uh and that's the model. And the other model is of course around the long-term

[23:12] relationship. I want to understand you, Katie, and understand your family and understand what you're looking to do, not only now, but in the next 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. And I want to have that repeat business and those referrals. And uh I'm not keen on churning through a lot of cold leads. I I I want warm referrals from my trusted clients. And so, both business models work. There is no right or wrong here. It's really up to the individual to determine where they want to play um and to build the model around that. Does that make sense? >> Completely. Because if you are say the transactional model, you know that you'll probably maybe have a higher burn rate of customers. >> Yeah. Uh and and obviously you have to factor that in because it's not about what we call a churn rate, but it's that part where you're okay with processing and delivering, processing and delivering. That's that's feels comfortable for you. Whereas other people are um almost in

[24:16] the long-term play where we actually and this is where the um sometimes the side opportunities come because you'll see that this person over time is ready for the next investment property. So you're actually investing in the future growth of that person and therefore they're also in return um giving you those opportunities back. >> Yeah. So there's a financial um part of that equation, but there's also a human part as well in the joy that you may get out of seeing that journey over time. Yeah. The joy of that strong relationship because >> whilst it's business, we still have to enjoy what we do, don't we? >> Yeah. >> So if you like if you like people, the the the relationship model is an awesome way to build your business. If you don't like people, then maybe the transaction model is more suitable to you. Yeah. >> Yeah. And either way, you'll be winning. It it really doesn't matter because as long you are processing and having the

[25:20] systems that help you meet those needs. Um, like you said, there's no right or wrong way to do that. >> It's just what's right for you. But have that in your business plan and make that decision. And at some point, if we move then on to the three years plus, you know, and you've identified your niches, you know where you want to play, you're you've got a lot more confidence, you're continuing to learn and grow as a broker. Maybe you've come to Mr. Mentor and done our commercial course to learn how to do that. Um, you'll start to need to, this is where you absolutely need to have processes. You need to have documented those processes. You need to be able to explain to staff that you start to bring on people into your business. you're transitioning your model completely. You're becoming a people manager. You're becoming a business owner as opposed to have created a job for yourself. Um this is a conscious decision. Uh >> yeah, >> this is an industry which does focus on volume as a metric. But there are some brokers who make a conscious decision and go, well, look, it's not my game. I

[26:23] just want to be an individual person who does my, you know, two or three million dollars a month and that's it. I'm happy with that. I've got a good income. I'm really enjoying my life. Some people go, I know, you know, I'm aiming for I'm aiming for 100 million plus a year. I need, you know, to get some structure behind me. I need to get some growth. I want to build a significant asset to sell in the future. >> Um, but that having that understand that's when your coach comes in. Yeah. That's when you get your one of the many coaches that are in the industry and there's some really good ones out there. um you tap into one of those to help you fill that niche and uh and start to build that business. >> Yeah. And I guess this is where the CRM making sure you have a great CRM design comes through because um if you aren't managing your leads um and pipeline really well, everything is I call it the mental load. You've got too much data in your head. Um and obviously I love a good CRM design. um it's my bread and

[27:28] butter, but it if you don't choose the right place to actually manage your business, then the growth and meeting those go growth goals is really hard. And this is where I guess you come in initially to help them set those foundations in place and then if they need the other growth goals, they might be going to a different uh broker coach. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We're part of that transition to that next step. And and it's very similar with your aggregator platform, your aggregator CRM. It will serve a purpose. Absolutely. And you can start your business and then they're powerful units. The aggregator CRM now, they've got so many components to them. However, there may come a time in your business you need to you have a desire to seek a different solution to perhaps have a different fields of capture. Maybe you've got a particular client uh type that you're targeting that you need different capability within your CRM. Um and it's same with the other tech tools that exist. And and of course it's staying across then other tech that's

[28:32] coming into the industry in the various forms of AI that are starting to influence outcomes, >> but also in understanding what they do and making sure you're doing everything within a compliant manner as well. >> Yeah. And so I guess as we um round out the conversation, if you were to um I'm trying to find the right word, but it's this whole growth journey. So we're starting at like zero. You're new to market um and you most people and I didn't realize this. So I actually did a certificate for to understand the industry more because obviously I was trying to build out processes. But in that certificate for I felt like I didn't really learn anything about the industry. I learned some processes and some obligations but managing that pro what like what you actually have to do. I didn't realized you have to first find a mentor and so um that's like ground zero but then it's then selecting your aggregator on top of that and and you know we might be able to create our own

[29:36] checklist as to what does good look like? >> Yeah. Um because I think you and I had previously discussed this that sometimes we just don't know what we know. Do you know what I mean? >> Um and and how do you know what good looks like is a really hard yard stick. If we were to give a basic view of what good looks like, what would you say that is? >> Uh I think good luck looks like having a when you start having having a plan >> Mhm. >> is pretty handy. Sure. you need the C for a diploma. Um, uh, that's a minimum educational requirement, but to your point, it won't teach you how to do the job. It's the, you know, we call it the ticket to the game. You need it to play, but it won't teach you how to play. Um, so I think having a plan, having um, understanding you need to learn your craft. So, the MFAA have got some terrific a terrific document um, around mentoring standards. They're not requirements, they're just standards. So um

[30:37] >> but part of their platform is that um you know a mentor should be providing a uh structured program for training. So you think of anything you do, anything you learn um particularly in a formal setting, you're not just getting one-on-one advice on how to do things because that's very expensive and it's inefficient. You also will sit through a training course of some sort where content and skills is delivered to you in a classroom style environment and hopefully it's interactive and you can ask questions and and you can understand through assessments how you how you travel. So I think making sure you invest in a the right level of training for your knowledge and skills >> so you can be effective as quickly as possible but really having a good marketing plan to start with as well and get going. So have the money behind you, get trained properly, go and find some clients. That would be my advice around that. As far as aggregation goes, um you will find all aggregators will have a contract. Make sure the contract's fair and reasonable. You know, if your

[31:39] contracts with aggregators are always a trade-off between what they deliver and what you pay. Yeah, it's a service industry. So once again, you're going to get what you pay for usually. Um, but understand if you want to build a brokerage and own it, make sure your contract stipulates that you own your data and you own your commission. You know, it's pretty pretty obvious, I know, but it's a great question to ask. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. And just surround yourself with support and just be really focused on what you're looking to achieve and u but get out there and find some customers as well. Uh, the rest of it will come when the time's right and you'll you'll build that knowledge over time. The reason mentoring is for two years. So over that two years, not only will you get the advice around the skills you need, there will be business development advice in there as well. And your aggregator will hopefully be be providing some of that food. Yeah. >> Yeah. And joining an industry body like MFA or FBA. >> Yep. >> Um that obviously you still need to be a part of at least one of them.

[32:44] >> You do. It's compulsory to join one of them. Correct. and and they have courses as well within them. So that >> they have some some training absolutely uh it's not mentoring but it is some training. Uh your aggregator will also have training but their training will more focused on um lender exposure. So you know they'll have their PD days where you and they're great to go to by the way. So um I recommend any broker go to their aggregated PD days. um meet their lender partners, get up to date on that lender's policy. At the end of the day, the lender partnership manager or BDM will be your um key knowledge point for that lender's products and policies. Yeah. >> Yeah. And sometimes your biggest advocate because sometimes if you want to work the deal or and you have a great relationship, you can call them up. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm going down a rabbit hole, but I'm >> Yeah, I would believe that BDMs would go, "Hang on a second. That's not my job. That's the mentor's job. Why don't

[33:46] you call your mentor?" Yeah. >> They're there to talk about their own courses and how to submit the deal with them, not the workshop deals in general. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, but sometimes um I've heard stories where you're trying to like you you're thinking of going to this particular lender because they have a general offer, but sometimes you can workshop like within the offer. >> Oh, of course. Yeah. And I think that's actually a really interesting understanding. Um home loans are not like uh policy, home loan policy or lender policy and even lender pricing to a point. It's not fixed. there. Um, policy is a guide. Um, a good lender will be able to look at a at an application and all the taking in consideration all the strengths and weaknesses of of that application. There may be one glaring weakness, but the strengths in the other areas might be enough to mitigate that weakness and still get the loan approved even though it could be strictly outside of the lender policy. Does that make sense?

[34:48] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, a good relationship with the lender EDMs is essential. Now, what a good relationship looks like for a lender DD and I would suggest is that the broker doesn't waste their time is knowledgeable and can have a conversation as a peer. Um, >> yeah. >> Yeah. And we don't want to go down rabbit holes. Um, at the end of the day, this is the value of having a person go to a broker versus a bank if they were to use one because the relationship exists and you would know the opportunities more and therefore you are able to find the better opportunity for your client and this is where you know this is like base ground level foundational and then when you get to year two three this is where you can uh like expand and grow. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We find just just on that first uh failure point, I'll just touch on this. It usually comes between around about month nine. We see if some you know um my old

[35:53] business partner Nick Mccclure had this joke that there's a lot of single people in this industry, but they didn't start out that way. And it's simply because they get to month nine, if they still don't have cash flow coming in their business, their partner goes, "Hang on a second. You've just lost all this money or invested all this money or sunk all this money into your business. You're not getting the return. You're frustrated. You're working ridiculously long hours because you're now having to work a second job to get bring cash flow in. I never see you anymore. >> It comes a tipping point >> and that tipping point will go either way. It'll either be, yep, this is working. I'm going to I'm really going to double down on this and have a crack or you know if you're going to fail, fail reasonably fast um and make a decision to get out. Uh yeah. >> Yeah. And um mental health is probably one of those biggest conversations we've had over this whole series of podcasting. Um, and I think if you are wanting to have a conversation around

[36:55] mental health for anybody else watching this, go watch it with um, Brahman and I Braumin from Penheligan. Um, we had a good conversation >> probably be those resources. We won't do that with you Bert because we've already had those conversations. There's been a few mindset conversations out there. So, just look at you know the pod and you'll find some there. But, um, if you are looking Sorry. Go. >> I was just going to say just on that mindset piece and you mentioned Bronwin's business. Um >> yeah, >> I think it's Nectar is the aggregator that um actually engages Bronwin and makes uh her services available under like an an employee or a broker uh service that if they are needing that support uh the company provides access to Robin as part of that and I think that's a terrific idea because um one of the underlying things that we that parts of a broker's life is that um you're dealing with on one side, a bank that's quite rigid and transactional, and on the other side, you've got a

[37:59] consumer who is quite emotional. >> The broker's very much that conduit in the middle that has to manage those conversations and translate bank into consumer speak and vice versa. And it can be stressful. And then on top of it, if you have a family and other other obligations outside of the work that you do, it's it's a big cognitive load. >> Um so always we always recommend take care of your health, take care of yourself, >> um as well as your business as you grow. Um if people wanted to learn more, um where should they go and what should they do? if they want to learn more from us, we loved having conversations and our website is um a great place to start. Just mrmentor.com.au. It has our contact details there. Um yeah, we we offer um completely free 45minute consultations with individuals looking to come into the industry and

[39:02] even or any existing brokers even who wish just to talk about their um their training and development needs for themselves and their teams into the future. As I said, we not only train new to industry brokers, we um train a lot of loan processes both onshore and offshore and we also have the commercial um piece as well taking experienced resi brokers into that new into that sector. So more than happy to talk about it and how it works and what the opportunities are. Yeah. >> Perfect. And you have like CBD point training as well. >> Everything has CPD attached to it. Uh we're fully approved by both industry bodies. Everything's CPD approved and um and and it's effective. We aim to train uh so the we aim a aim for our training to be practical. So there's training that tells you what you need to do >> and there's training that tells you what you need to do but then how to do it. >> Yeah. >> We're the second one. We we go in. So

[40:05] our stuff's deep. It goes into how you do what you do. methodology not um >> yeah it's really practical application into your business. Yeah. >> Perfect. If um anybody here is wanting us to dive deeper on a particular topic feel free to re leave a comment below. I'm sure uh Brett and I will happily have another conversation. Um until then thank you very much Brett. I really appreciate your time today. >> You're welcome. Thanks for thanks for inviting me on and uh yeah, I'm looking forward to to a big 2026 for for the profession. Um this is a fantastic industry. So many good people and so many great outcomes delivered. Um I think as a as a industry we should be proud of what we >> Yeah. And and you know the industry is booming despite what's happening in the rate space. Even though the news comes out, there are still people who do want to buy. Um, and it's just about making sure you can tap into those markets. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Katie. Have a great uh rest of the week and uh I look forward to our next conversation.