Marketing as a System: Strategy & Brand Clarity for Brokers

[00:00] Hi and welcome to Broker Tools, where we unpack the tools, systems, and strategies that help brokers optimize the way they work. I'm Katie, your host, and today we are going to discuss marketing as a system. We all know that we need to get better at marketing our business and services, especially as brokers, but how and when we should do it can be a bit of a hit and miss. Joining me for this conversation is Abby from Chris Communications and Marketing. Abby is an expert in brand clarity, social media strategy, and customerdriven communication. Her approach is simple and direct, ensuring you are not just throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping it sticks. But there's always a system and a process to the magic of marketing. And today we are hoping to unravel that mystery. Abby, welcome to the pod. >> Yay. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited. >> So excited. Um, for the listeners, I think it would be good and I guess a bit of context awareness for you covering what we've covered so far in the various conversations we've had across the pot because I think this will all bring it

[01:03] together. So, our very first what I call accidental off-the cuff pot was um talking about it safety and security. Then we went to paid ads lead generation, how to use go high level to manage your lead flow, um how to appear in AI search. We also talked about how to open up the rolodex of someone's mind so that when you're networking, they can just slick you out as the chosen broker or person to work with for whatever opportunity someone might talk to you about. How to also be a great leader and find the right team members to reduce turnover. Finding your systems champion because running that is, you know, even though you've you've got a business, you need to have systems in place. But now we're not only recruiting people, we're also recruiting AI. So how do you have like a job description for your AI? And that comes down to having your systems in place and a champion to oversee all types of staffing. Then we went in through to them outsourcing your credit analyst work. Then the just the last two

[02:06] ones we've recently done was podcasting for lead generation and how to become the local hero of your community. It's an insane amount of podcasts. Yeah. Very cool. You've been busy. >> I know. But it it just kind of like once I did the IT one, I went, you know what? I should be doing this as podcasts and then I started booking people in. And this is I guess how our conversation has rolled about because Victor was the person that we were talking to yesterday for for podcast for lead generation. When I was exiting out of that, they needed another marketing strategist in place. And so we transitioned me out and put you in to help support the team over there as they were developing their marketing. I guess overall this is what we call communications and marketing as a process because you know we whether you are transitioning from one place to another or having things going it it needs to kind of roll like a whole ecosystem. And so I think what I and I was just saying this earlier, what I

[03:09] find that I love most about you is how you really help brands align their communication and marketing. >> Thank you. That is something I do love because I think you know you were talking about all these really great topics that you've covered off and they are all really good individual things and quite often that they're like little tactics but sometimes it's so great to have a conversation like this where you actually take a step back and you think about the overarching strategy of what you're looking to achieve because when you have that overall strategy then everything will become aligned. Um, you know, people quite often have their business strategy over here and they have their marketing strategy over here and then tactics all over the place, but actually they should all be feeding into each other because it was when you get that alignment, that's when you get some really cool results happening. So, yeah. Yeah. And and I I think I couldn't agree more. At the heart of everything that I particularly do is systems and processes. I also love outsourcing and getting things to a place where you

[04:13] don't have to be there anymore. And um I think if you're a solo entrepreneur, whether you are a broker or not, some of the keeping on top of your marketing can be really really hard. When you go through a process with a client, how do you help them figure out where to start? >> Yeah, >> it's a big question. >> That's a big question. Um so yeah, basically when there's basically three times where when people come to me. um when any business comes to me is basically they either um have a really great business but they're not telling their story well enough. They um have so many options of where to go with marketing and they just don't know even know where to start or maybe they've started it themselves and they've run out of time and they don't know how to implement it themselves and implement it consistently. So generally when when people come to us they are fall into one of those three categories. Once I identify what that key problem is, that helps us where to start. But whenever we do anything with a client, we always

[05:16] start with a deep dive and we do a bit of an audit. So depending on what their their focus is, we might do a whole digital audit which will take in everything that's happening about what's about them online, what they've been doing in their previous marketing, um what's worked well, what hasn't worked well, what are some like some crucial things to fix immediately. but also looking elsewhere like what's happening in the industry that's really cool that we can learn from. What's happening overseas that we can learn from? And then we kind of go back to their strategy before like their goals. What are your goals for your business? How can your marketing strategy, your marketing goals support that? And then we kind of piece it together like a big puzzle. This is what you've got so far. This fits really well. that is probably not a good use of your time because it's not getting the results that you need, you know, and kind of just piece it together. Um, and so that's where we start. We don't come in knowing thinking that we have the whole entire solution and a one-sizefits-all solution for everyone because each business is individual and you and you they've got

[06:19] different goals, different clients, and a different sort of history. Uh so that's what we do. So we just like kind of lead with a curious mind and start there >> which is I guess the key part because sometimes you will start things like you said you've got three kinds of clients and often the ones who have started something they just started it because they think this will help them get what they need from their business for leads is most of the time that's why you do marketing is for leads. And so that part of them just starting there, but then they're running out of energy, you don't know that you actually need um a strategy in the first place to h handle that. >> Yeah. >> And so >> I guess my question to you is what is a strategy in and of itself because most times people don't even know that that's what they need. So they don't even think to ask. >> And you know what? I think people get scared of the word strategy and they're like, "Oh, that sounds too complicated. I don't know what I'm doing and they don't bother doing it. But basically, it's just like having a little bit of a

[07:23] plan in place. So, we when we put uh a strategy together for someone, we always start with what are the goals? So, what are you actually looking to achieve? You know, if you have unlimited time, money, resources, energy, you can do whatever you want. But most the time with if you are a small business, if you are a broker, you probably don't have a huge team. and you're super busy. So, you got to try and really focus on what am I looking to achieve here with my marketing and how does this actually feed into the business. So, one of the goals could be yet to get more leads into the business. Another another goal might be um to raise brand awareness. You know, perhaps there's you're new into the industry and and no one even knows about you. Maybe it's to reposition you as a as a local champion as you said before. like whatever your your goals are um your overarching marketing goals, we start with that and then we sort of decide what are the activities we're going to do with it. So

[08:25] you might list out the different things that you're going to do whether it's going to be um you're going to focus on a social media strategy or maybe you're going to focus on a Google review strategy. Um like what are the actual kind of tactics that you're going to be using to help you achieve that? Um, we always pop in there our KPIs like all the things that we're going to measure against because you so you're kind of saying like, oh yeah, you know, a marketing goal is to get more leads, but like what does that mean? Unless you assign, you know, like I said, unless you assign a number to it, you're not really going to know like what you've been doing has actually worked. So, you might have an overall goal of um, you know, get three more leads every week. That's a really good goal. Um then then that's something you can actually measure against and you have your initial sort of status of what you know how many leads you're currently getting. Try do your marketing strategy and and actually start implementing your plan. Then come back and go well did we achieve that? Oh no we only at you know one and a half. Okay cool or two or

[09:28] whatever. Okay cool. What do we need to do to change to actually hit that number that we wanting to? So yeah, basically it's just a plan on the way forward and having some really practical things in there that you can come back to. Um, and you mentioned like consistency and like handing over a transitioning and and things like that. The one of the reasons why we love having a strategy written down and a plan written down is that you as the business owner, you don't have to do it all then because it's articulated. you can pass it to someone else in your team or someone who you're outsourcing, someone like you, and you can go, "This is what we're working towards and then you're on the same page." And it's so much easier to collaborate and work with other people because it's written down. Yeah. And and I guess having a clear direction of where you're going and what why you're doing what you're doing makes that, you know, so much better because again, we're not trying to throw spaghetti at the wall >> and hope it sticks. >> Yeah. And it's good because it it helps you protect your time, too, because you

[10:32] know, quite often when people start their marketing, they get so enthusiastic and they're like, "Oh, we could do this. We could do that." And then after a while when you are getting tired and you and you're you're having to be selective, you can go back to your strategy and go actually yeah we can do these things but it doesn't further our strategy at this point in time. So we're just going to park it for now. Might be useful in a future strategy but at this point in time it doesn't really align. So let's take it out. And you can feel so much more confident in making those decisions about what to do and what not to do. which I guess is the key part because when you think about it from an energy point of view, this is a it can be a time suck marketing in and of itself. And if your main priority is closing sales and closing deals, cannot allocate yourself to both. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Like that's just the easiest way to go to burnout if you're trying to do everything all the time >> and it's never ending. Like this is why marketing has so many um kind of silo businesses offering marketing services because business owners don't have the

[11:36] time and they should outs outsource all of those kind of key components and if you don't know what you need to outsource I guess this is what this conversation is about is one what are you aiming for as a business owner and just because you are a broker and you might do mortgage but you also might do commercial. So if you are doing lead generation, which particular kind of lead are you looking for? How we niche that down? Um so that again your whole brand communications can be packaged up in a way that serves not only you but your community for the energy that you have. >> Yeah, absolutely. And like you know I mentioned that your marketing strategy should align with your business strategy. Your business strategy should have that in there. It should have in your target audience like who are the perfect people that you want to work with that you can help and you can serve really really well. It should also have in there you know what does your business do for these people? Um how do you do that and what is the impact that

[12:39] your business is going to make on these people? So if they come and work with you, what are the benefits they're going to get from that? And that's your if that is written into your business strategy, then your marketing strategy will just feed into that because Yeah, you're right. Like we need to be really targeted with who we're talking to because that's going to help your messaging and and your marketing down the track completely. And as you said that, I realized that that's how you do energy management because you're like, I can focus exactly on my audience because I know that. And this bright shiny object over here is not going to distract me because it doesn't actually feed the systems that I've got in place. And so you can easily shut down an opportunity because as bright and shiny as and good-looking as maybe this event because sponsorship is a really cool thing you can do for your business, but if that particular event doesn't actually align with your business goals or values, you can you can actually better allocate your time and money. >> Yeah. >> And and I guess as we go through all of

[13:41] this, it's interesting, but it's all about energy now. So when you feel it like cuz now that you've got your systems and your process around the strategy in place, you can then go out and do different things. Where do you like help people focus? Do you go tend to go to social media or how do you do the I I like to call it the circular economy of marketing, but you know, you try I like to take one piece of content and split it up in five different ways. What do you often take people on for their journey? >> Yeah. So, a lot of time people come for us for the for the structures, the ideas, the consistency of it all and keeping things on track, you know, like you're you're super busy as a business owner and and when life gets busy, your marketing literally just falls off the your to-do list. >> Yeah. So that so people come to us to ensure that things are going out all the time and they they are running even though they're going through these crazy busy times. Um but where we specialize

[14:46] is in um you know we primarily work with service based businesses, financial services generally brokers, financial adviserss, accountants, people like that. And these are um businesses who are really really relationship based because they're offering a service and people it's like a really high trust high trust industries that if people don't trust trust you they don't know you they're not going to work with you. So, we specialize in doing organic content that really builds the relatability of our business owners to their clients or our, you know, our business owners teams to their clients and kind of really work on that authenticity and relationship building. Uh, and we love the content uh re being able to reuse your content. You know, you invest in your marketing. you want really good bang for buck. So we set up these processes where you know you you create one piece of content just like

[15:48] you said and you can get the most as out of it as you can. So, uh, you know, for example, we might get a client to film a video and then we turn that into a blog and then we get about five pieces of social media content out of it and it also goes in their newsletter. And, you know, like you just try to get the most out of it to make sure that you're you're you know, the energy that you're putting in is actually being spent worth in a worthwhile way. >> And that is I guess the ecosystem because energy needs to cycle through. So if you do that one piece then it can be siloed into the other parts. Infographics is also a fun way to turn that piece of wording into a picture and then I guess from a time mental energy you as a broker you might have just gone yep I've done this one piece but then you're heading off into the direction you need to go with clients and services and then you've got people like yourself running the rest of this content division is what I'm calling it.

[16:53] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we harness their we harness their ideas and passions and and all those types of things, but they only have to do it once and then we'll make the most of it and and we make sure that it's really nice and consistent because we want it to be that no matter where someone sees your brand, whether they see you in a Google search, whether they see you on a LinkedIn post, or whether they see your, you know, your sign at an event that you have sponsored, that it all looks really nice and consistent and is going to help you with that brand awareness. >> Yes. And I love how you were saying consistence because sometimes um when you start you think you should hire a VA in the Philippines and obviously you and I both work with people in the Philippines. um we have found great team members there but they often are missing the strategy overall and so some of that consistency and clarity of message doesn't always translate and so what are you recommending because as people if

[17:57] you are starting out and you choose to hire your own person based in the Philippines what would you recommend someone do to make sure that they have that consistency in place >> yeah look I I really love just to have everything kind of documented and um and you know that by that I mean having a strategy, having a brand board or a brand guide which says um how to use your logo, your colors, your fonts that you use. Um you can even go to the next step of like language that you like to use when you're talking about your business and language that you don't like to use, you know. Um, some businesses are super super corporate and professional and others are a bit more like laid-back and fun and you know and so that if you're trying to get someone to help you with your messaging, that clarity is really really good. Um, I'm also a huge fan of processes, especially video processes. I record a lot of processes on like Loom and things like that. Um, and having templates. So, you know, if you know you're going to be

[19:02] doing something more than once, then you should create it into a template so you're not having to put your brain space to that every single time. So, that's what I I would rely on if you're going for someone outsourcing, you know, whether it's here or overseas. Um, because it actually just means that the two of you are going to be aligned and it's going to be so much easier in the long run. >> Yeah. And I guess this comes down to your standard operational processes. Whether you're doing it for your own business or for your marketing presence, everything is about alignment. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know what? Uh when I started my business way back in 2019, uh because I'm a process nerd, I love that stuff. I was writing my own processes even though it was just me and the team. And um it really made me actually be consistent with my decision- making because you know as opposed to just dealing everything like ad hoc on the fly. I was like, actually, you know, I got a process for that. And I refreshed myself and I got into it. And by the time I actually ended up hiring my first couple of team members,

[20:05] you know, the following year, um, I was like, well, here you go. Here's our processes. And like the onboarding was so much quicker. And I was like, thank you, past Abigail. You're a legend. >> You're helping future Abigail so much right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Even though it was like overkill because I was like making myself a brand board and I was doing this. I was like, it was just myself. I was like, this is going to get me clear and I'm sure it's not going to be wasted. And yeah, I was absolutely right that it was great for for me to be clear and consistent. And then it was also great for, you know, when my team expanded that it made that sort of onboarding like pain point a little bit easier. Yeah, I'm getting a little bit distracted because I recently created myself anou um for me like as an um you know a memorandum of understanding why am I doing this business what are the goals and outcomes the ethics that we are running um as we move forward in life um it's it's such a weird I think but like

[21:10] you're saying I by having your own guidelines of why you're doing what you're doing and and having it all documented and systemized as you go along. It just makes that I guess it reduces what we call decision fatigue. And sometimes when you're doing what we call spaghetti on the wall marketing I I know I'm going to overuse that phrase, but that's what often marketing can happen is you go, "Oh, I heard you know podcasting is a great way to get out there." So you start recording and you might invested on a lot of equipment, but even as Victor said the other day, most people stop at 20 podcasts and they don't continue. And so you've invested all this time and energy for a way of marketing to not really have the energy or time to be sustainable. Whereas again coming back to your point of having a strategy, having a document that says why you do what you do, who you're doing it for, the ethics and the values that you align to, it makes so much more sense. >> Yeah. And you can get pretty granular about it like you mentioned podcast then um you know we help people with their

[22:12] podcasts um and mostly around the podcast strategy and actually getting getting it out there and making the most of it and one of our clients um had been producing their podcast for about a year and a half and was just at that point where they were tired and they weren't achieving really good results and and I was like okay cool let's talk about it. Why did he start the podcast? What's it all about? what are you looking to achieve? How does this relate to your business? Just asking a thousand questions. And one of the issues was is like there was no clarity over exactly what the podcast was and what the podcast wasn't. And so, you know, they were just doing interviews that sound like kind of interesting, but then that was great. You know, that's great when you've got tons of energy and you're just doing it for fun. But when your podcast is actually supposed to help, you know, further your business and you want to actually get a regular listenership, if they if listeners don't know what to expect or, you know, the the podcast content so random, um, they're not going to come back and tune in if they're if

[23:18] they're just like, "My topic is nothing similar to the one last week." like, okay, no, I'm going to go for something where I know what to expect because my time is precious. >> Yeah. And I guess that's that theming. So from a I call it a through line. So you and this is I guess your brand essence. There is always a key message that you're always communicating whether you're talking to people online, offline, through podcasting. And this is I guess that whole brand communications and clarity point of view. there's like just one key message that you always want to get out, but then you can have themes for each section. So, right now we're in the like the thick of all the different types of lead generation and marketing because that's obviously a key part of operating any business. >> But if you don't have that kind of through line, it's hard for other people to go, why am I here? like is in that decision making process. It's it's really about how do we make decisions I think more and more

[24:20] >> as we go through. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think I think the recurring theme in this episode >> is uh get clear and document. >> Yeah. And and and I know it sounds weird, but I think this is what I I um if I was to give us a key message between what I've talked about and how I'm finding the through lines between what we have actually spoken about, it's it's you you've got time and energy and it's so finite. And if you are going to do any marketing endeavor, you need to know what your return on investment is. >> Um because marketing is a time suck if you don't do it right. >> Yeah. It's never ending. >> You can't stop just because you're tired. >> Well, you can, but then you you're going to feel the results of that. Like, yeah, I talk about, you know, consistency in your messaging and in your graphics and all this sort of stuff, but consistency in your efforts and marketing. It's not like it's not like you start marketing and tomorrow you're going to get a

[25:22] client. It's like there's so many touch points that someone has to see. there's they have to see you and your business so many times before they going to start to know you. They're going to start to trust you and then they're actually going to move further down that like client customer journey where they're actually at the point where they want to talk to you, reach out to you and start working with you. So, if you are having these like, you know, really roller coaster style approaches to your marketing where you're doing a ton and then you're stopping and then you're doing a ton and you, you know, and you're going up and down the whole time. That is going to really not serve you well in terms of the algorithm, Facebook, Google searches. It's not going to serve you well in terms of the customer journey. You're just going to make them a little feel seasick. They're seeing you too much and then they don't see you at all. if they ever see you again. Yeah, you've just got to make sure that you are being consistent in your efforts and and doing it in a sustainable way. And it is if you are running a business,

[26:25] your primary your primary focus should be running on the business, not necessarily doing every single part of that business. And so that's why marketing is a really great way, a really good thing to outsource to someone who knows what they're doing it, who knows what they're doing, who can do it faster, who knows the tools and the processes that they can use to actually get the most out of it, and then you can focus on the on the stuff that you, you know, you've started your business for. Most people didn't start their business to go, you know, I really want to do marketing, so I'm going to start a business so I can market it. Like, they don't do that. They go, I'm going to start a business because, you know, I want I want to be a broker because I want to help families get into their homes. I want to, you know, like that. They've got that sort of reason. They don't want to they don't want to do their marketing. >> And and then I guess by outsourcing it means that because you are excited, but you can over nerd out which can cause people to shut down. by outsourcing to um people who actually know marketing. They know how to take your excitement and craft it into a place in a way that

[27:29] actually resonates with um people who don't nerd out as hard as you might. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. Absolutely. I mean, so much of my job is Yeah. to harness that excitement and that passion and that you know the reason for being um but also to kind of like swat away these crazy ideas that are not aligned with the strategy like okay that's a good one we'll just put that on the park list for now do that but how um don't do that right now which is so true because I I think yes I think about everything. So, um obviously I I I used to work in marketing. I now do more systems and automations which is beautiful. But then whether you're doing marketing or you're actually doing technology, we all have what we call bright, you know, bright shiny object syndrome like ah this is a cool idea. I

[28:31] had this idea >> and you want to run at it full power because it's so cool right now. M >> but again from like as in once you've hit that point and it's not actually aligned with what your long-term goals it it it uses energy that you could actually craft it in to the bigger purpose of what you're wanting. And I think having someone like yourself to bounce that off who actually understands what works and doesn't gives you again the decision fatigue management. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like I like to say that I'm a critical friend where I'm just like um I will hear everything and I will I I will ingest it all but then I will also ask you the critical questions back like how does this align? Where does this fit? And you know, I actually remember when I was going to get my mortgage for my very first property when I bought my own apartment back when I was a wee baby. And my mortgage worker was that critical friend to me where he

[29:35] was like, "Okay, um, do you really want to spend this much money because it will leave you this much money left over for having fun and doing this and that?" And and I was like, "Yes, I still want to do it. I've been saying Yeah. And it's like even if the you're you know even if it doesn't align to your marketing strategy but you're super passionate about and you've got another really good reason for it then I'm like cool all right we'll go ahead. Just like the the broker was like yep sure you are going to be eating like ramen noodles for the next three years but we'll go ahead because I was able to like articulate myself and say why I wanted to do it and I was really sure of my decision. So, not uh that's just to say that I'm not a total fun fun police. I'm not don't not a buzzkill. If you have this really cool thing that you want to do, like you want to say get a sponsorship for a local charity and there's not actually going to be a return on investment there monetarily, but it's going to make you feel really good and it's something that you're really passionate about and you

[30:38] and that's one of your core values. I'm like, "Yep, cool. that can be part of your marketing even though it's not actually further in this specific goal. So, I'm not a total buzz kill in that sense. >> And again, this is where you need that that best friend who's like your ride and die. Like, I'm here to ride and die with you. You might have a silly idea, but I will ride that idea with you as long you've figured out um this the consequences or you know the the the downside of it, but you're you're all in. Um, >> you broker. >> Hey, I mean, I think sometimes whether you're doing marketing, running a broker business, at the end of the day, I see everybody as an entrepreneur. You might have this like what we call key focus business, but you're always going to have like side ideas and you need friends and other people. And this is where, you know, you can go into a venture with someone or you build a software with someone or you build some

[31:40] other total other business non-related to the industry you're in. You're always going to see opportunities once you start building out your business. Once you start getting your marketing in place, once you start having this rhythm and maturity in your business, you're like, "Oh, I'm now safe. I've now got this like little ecosystem going. What else can I now do? How do I expand my wealth? How do I continue from here? And you kind of need someone who is your ride and die marketing person and or broker because sometimes you will need that broker to fund your life or the decisions that you need to make. >> Yeah. They have people to know. >> Yeah. Yeah. And if you become that that person who goes, I'm going to ride and die with you. I'll give you the wisdom that you need. I've got all these systems and processes to check that you've made that aligned decision. Let's let's head into the sunset. >> Yeah. And it's just like it's so good, you know, like it's a solo affair being an entrepreneur or being a business

[32:44] owner, you know, it it's um can feel quite lonely sometimes because you're the one who's like leading everything and you're making all the decisions. The implementation falls on you. you even if you have a team then like the pressure of ensuring that you're stirring up this cash flow so you can pay your team like it can get really like feel very solitary. And so when you have someone who is like yeah your critical best friend someone else you can just like collaborate with even if it's just taking you know 10% or 5% of your workload off you and just having someone there you can just bounce ideas off is just like such a good thing. Um I I I certainly feel that whenever I do any outsourcing or collaborate with other people is that um my grandma used to say um a problem shared is a problem harved. And so which is like such a nice little saying but it's like yeah you just talk to someone else you know you've just got someone on the other end of the phone the other end of the email it actually just makes you feel so much better.

[33:47] >> Yeah I couldn't agree more. It's one of those things where as you said it is a solo journey and sometimes you kind of feel alone even if you have others in the industry. You don't want sometimes what we call um a commisery friend. Do you know what I mean? Like someone who's already in the trenches and was already suffering. You kind of want that devil on the shoulder friend who's also up for a little bit of fun if it was the right opportunity so that they can take you out of that like sad place and take you to the next place that you need to go. And again in entrepreneurship it's really hard and even if you outsource it to someone in marketing I think marketing is probably some of the fun things because it can bring energy back into your business instead of you know draining your business because you're you've putting all time and energy in it. >> Yeah. And like there's such a good feeling like you I started working with a client a couple of months ago and they sent me an email about a month in. It was like we have just had the best week for referrals we've had in the entire

[34:50] time that we've been working uh since we launched the business. And they were just so enthusiastic and they were like what do we do next? How about this? So, I was like, "Yeah, marketing can make you feel great." Cuz you're like, there's nothing worse than pouring your heart and soul and hard work into a business and then not seeing the results of it. Um, and if someone else can just help you, you know, take it to that next level, why why not do that? It's going to make you feel awesome. And also, you know, your your wallet will help you like thank you as well. >> Yeah. And I guess it it is that whole like balancing one. you know, you've got joy back in because you've got these referrals who are feeding the soul part that you actually need to have fed. >> Um, if people want to reach out to you, Abby, where should they go? What should they do? >> Oh, where I would love to talk to anyone about their marketing. If you jump onto my website, which is crispcoms.co, which I'm sure we'll put in the show notes, there's actually a uh a button on there where you can book in a free

[35:52] marketing kickstarter with me. So, it's just like a 30-minute chat, no obligation, and we can just kind of talk about where you are currently with your marketing, what are your goals, what are your pain points, if we're the right people to help you, I'll let you know. If not, I can point you in the right direction of my very capable colleagues. >> And that is crisp with a C because sometimes I feel inclined to spell it with a K, but it is not. >> No, C R I S P. Just like crisps, potato crisps. I'm obsessed with chips. Yeah, again thank you for joining me on this pod. If the audience wants to leave a comment, has further questions, feel free to reach out to us. But again, we will put them in the show notes on how you can get in contact with Abby. >> Thank you.