How to Focus and Grow in 2026 with Bronwyn Penhaligon Strategic Psychologist

[00:00] Hi and welcome to Broker Tools, where we unpack the tools, systems, and strategies that help brokers optimize the way they work. I'm Katie, your host, and today we are catching up with Brumman from Penheligan Applied Psychology. If you have been following along um with Broker Tools, you'll know that we've already talked about cyber security, CRM, backfinds, team development, and marketing. However, we're kind of going in a slightly different direction today and focusing on the human behind it all. You at the time of this recording, we have just entered into 2026, literally one week into the new year. Um, and while most people are goal setting, planning, and pushing forward, I thought it would be a perfect time to talk about broker burnout and how to avoid it. We all know that a broke being a broker can be fun, exciting, and incredibly rewarding. It can also be extremely isolating, high pressure, and emotionally demanding. So, if you've been feeling overwhelmed or

[01:02] anxious, or could use some practical strategies to manage stress while still working towards your big audacious goals, this conversation is for you. From, welcome to the pod. >> Thank you so much for having me, Katie. >> You are most welcome. I'm actually really looking forward to this conversation because like we were just saying before we started the this actual conversation, as positive as we always want to start the year, the truth is being a broker is a lot to manage. I know that we've just had the Christmas New Year break and it doesn't mean that we are I mean you and I were just saying that we are starting off pretty positive, but it doesn't mean everybody else is starting off positive. And so I think having this whole honest conversation about broker burnout and how to avoid it will probably be a really great way to start 20 and six 26. Oh my gosh, we're here. >> Yeah, absolutely. And and I also agree I'm I'm thrilled that this is a topic that we're leading off with. Um particularly in this the the year of the horse, you know, there's been a lot of

[02:05] vibing happening around that where, you know, horses are strong and they're stoic and they push through and they gallop into the distance. But as someone who owned horses back in the day when I was um in my youth, they're also really precious and they need rugging and lots of care and you need to rest them and warm them up, right? So yes, absolutely. There's a lot of strength available for us this year, but we also need to balance that with what we know is going to have us be the most optimized versions of ourselves. >> I couldn't agree more. I do love that you are um into Chinese astrology. Um [clears throat and laughter] cuz we're now entering so I was now I want to go down the rabbit holes of you know numerology because we're now in a one year. So, if last year was uh chaotic and um crazy for you, it's because we're in a finishing year. >> Um and so now we're stepping into like you said the horse year and and as we do want to gallop across and gallop through

[03:09] it, it's now it's that whole energy of renewal. M [clears throat] well and it's also a theme that I I see and discuss with people in clinic all the time, right? That are coming through from particularly in the the broking world in the area of financial services because it is a high pressure environment, right? Let's let's not pretend that it isn't. It often is sold to people as being you can work from home, you can choose your hours, you know, do the the pickups and drop offs of school and it's this really wonderful lifestyle. You'll make great money and you'll have heaps of friends. It's also really isolating. It's a hard slog. It's a huge burn. You get a lot of pressure from both the clients you're trying to service and also then trying to work with the the banks, the aggregators and those kinds of guys to get the exemptions and the exceptions to get things done on time. So, it's a lot and and I think that if we can appreciate that as we kick off on this fresh new year and work with that instead of pushing against it and having the friction there, we're probably going

[04:12] to be a bit more likely to actually find that this year is going to be one that we can genuinely succeed at, which is I guess what why we always start off the new year with new year goals. um most people try to at least before we go into some of those details. I think it would be good for people to have maybe a little bit of background um because you and I obviously just became fast friends, but [laughter and gasps] uh most people may not know you yet. Um and so what helped you come into the career of becoming a strategic psychotherapist? >> Yes, thank you Katie. Um so, oh gosh, it is a little bit of a story. I guess we're on a podcast so I'm hoping people are comfy. Um, but essentially my version of me that you have with you today was was a long way in the the making, right? So I originally went down the path of working in advertising and marketing. So fresh out of uni studying and doing that, I I worked in that space

[05:14] for 15 20 years um right up to CSD type roles. And it was in my final client-f facing role uh that I was in when COVID hit and I got my don't come Monday because it was a multinational company and I was on a contract and they're like look we don't know what's going to happen. Everyone's in lockdown. Sorry about it but um yeah we we're just we're just going to call it here. So I did what any self-respecting woman did was I sat in the bath and drank some wine and cried a lot and um then [laughter] as and then as lockdown was happening um you know it's a long time ago now right but maybe just do a bit of a retrospective like I remember we were all locked up in our homes and suddenly we had all this time available right so there were no KPIs there were no things to do that you couldn't you couldn't go out on adventures um people were rediscovering versions of themselves. So remember, everyone was baking bread, like sourdough became a vibe. Um, some people went down that moment of playing

[06:19] musical instruments um or learning languages. I decided to have an existential crisis and start to question who I was as a person. And with that void of no deliverables, nothing to manage, nothing to produce, nothing to add value to, there was this real question mark around who even am I? Am I even real? Like what is the purpose of me? And I distinctly remember sitting with um a cup of coffee one morning and my new best friends Glattus and Dr. Chant who were telling me how many people had COVID and how many were dead because remember we'd get our daily updates. And uh this was in that period of time where funerals had just been announced that they were capped at 10 people. And I remember thinking, if I get CO and I die, who's going to be at my funeral? And what are they going to say about me? How will I be remembered? And it was a really visceral moment of realizing at a very deep level that I actually wasn't all that proud of the

[07:23] career world and the life that I'd created for myself. And if I was going to die prematurely of COVID, then I I wanted to have done something that meant something that helped people and that genuinely made a difference in the world. And to be honest, marketing campaigns and ad stuff, you know, buy this stuff and you'll be happy, didn't exactly really lad up with my new version of me. So I uh went about studying again and yeah discovered strategic psychotherapy which is the most incredible way of being able to genuinely move someone from feeling stuck and limited and depleted to empowered and resourceful and actually taking charge of their lives. Again, I'm not all that interested in doing those deep dives into childhood trauma and unpacking your relationship with your mom and let's, you know, go looking for a causal root story because we don't have a time machine, right? Um, but I do believe that people go into a therapeutic

[08:26] intervention because they want to change their future. Yeah. They're interested in how can I make my life better? And let's face it, the world is moving so fast. there are so many demands on it that when you do find yourself in a tricky shitty spot, ain't nobody got time for that. There is so much that you've got to get done. So sitting there and doing this big deep dive and you know unpacking it all. I mean how helpful [clears throat] is it? It's more a case of well where are you now? Where do you want to be? And how do we get you from here to there as fast as possible? Remember, I come from advertising and marketing, so I'm very impatient and um I like to move quite quickly with with my clients. And it it tends to work really well, particularly in these kinds of industries where people are also got to do, businesses to run, families that need them, and um a whole beautiful amazing world of life ahead of them. >> Yeah. And and I think this is I guess the difference between a psychologist or a psychotherapist and a strategic one

[09:30] cuz as you were talking about it, it actually made me reflect on things. Um and I was like, you know, with your brain, it it can either it's a big prediction machine is what it they say. So if you renumerate on things that are not going well then that unfolds also and then it can steamroll and then you you you go into that place whereas being as a strategic psychotherapist you're like yeah >> you you this crappy thing happened. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's time machine back into fixing that. >> Absolutely. And you know what Katie? Yeah. Sometimes people do get curve balls or sucker punches and everybody that I've ever spent time with has a war story, right? But there are two things that happen with that in the again the traditional um you know psychotherrapeutic way of intervention is let's understand it. Let's seek to look for the meaning behind it, where it comes from, what's going on. Every single time you tell your war story, that shitty horrible thing that you know happened, you reminate that. So

[10:34] essentially, you're building that neural connection in your brain. And here's the crappy thing about that. It's your brain doesn't know the difference between what's imagined and what's real. So every time you tell that story, you feel it again. You hurt again. You get nervous again. You get tense again because you're basically torturing yourself. And I'm like, why on earth would I do that to anybody? I I'm not interested in hurting people. So I'm like, I don't need to hear your story. I will listen for those words that and bits of nods and those um cognitive disassociations and things that are going on for you, the patterns that you can hear in people's language that will basically explain what that story may have looked like. But essentially, as you were saying before, our mindset really does determine what our life experience looks like. So if you focus on the shitty bits, you're going to see more shitty bits. Your brain is wired for pattern. It likes to look and play snap all the time. Oh, this is just like

[11:36] that. Ah, here's another example of this. And that's how we get into those rumination cycles. Yeah. If you can understand that, flip it and reverse it and you start choosing to focus on what's going well, where you're making progress, the things you're grateful for, the people that you have around you that are supportive and that you care about, that's what you start to notice and manifest more of. So I know it sound using words like manifesting sounds a little bit woowoo but essentially the way that you choose to face up to the world is what will be reflected back to you simply because of the neuroscience behind it. I agree. Um I also am highly aware that sometimes you get smashed. Um and in my own personal experience I found sometimes what I call a little bit of wallowing actually helps. So you wallow, but you give yourself a time frame to wallow. So I'm allowed to wallow for 10 minutes. That's it. Or, you know, cuz I think sometimes, you know, people go, it's my mindset. I need to fix my

[12:41] mindset. And and sometimes that's actually not really the solution. It's actually feeling like you were saying >> because we were doing this whole repeating thing. You're feeling it and you're repeating the feeling. But sometimes you need to what we call what feel through it >> is is what I have found. >> Yeah. I'm I'm a big big fan of feelings, right? I just think that there are sometimes that yes, if you if you deny them, they'll get louder and and they'll become problematic for you, right? I mean, there are people that I've worked with in in clinic that I fondly refer to as being emotionally constipated because, you know, they've got so much inside them that they've been pretending isn't there that then they're almost terrified of opening any kind of feeling because, oh my gosh, what will happen and how, you know, maybe I can't handle it, what's going to come out. But the more that we do that, the worse it becomes. M >> the other part around it too is you don't want to live there when you're going through shitty stuff and bad things happen. Absolutely recognize it for what it is. Sit with the feelings.

[13:44] Let yourself hurt. Let yourself cry. Scream into a pillow if you need to. Do whatever you need to do to process that. But then yeah, to your point, move through it and be like, "Okay, cool story, bro. What am I going to do about it? What am I going to change now? How am I going to help lift myself up here?" And it may be that sometimes, yeah, we do get those sucker punches that knock us on our ass and we're like, actually, I can't do this one on my own. I need someone to to throw me a hand and help me up. And that's perfectly okay. >> Yeah. And I guess this is where the value of your types of services because again, sometimes we we do um hold these things internally with ourselves. We don't even share it with some of our friends and so we might be renumerating and we might be having a hard time by ourselves and not reaching out. When do you notice would be a good time for some person to try and reach out because this is where I guess what we had to try and talk about broker burnout because it's the stacking

[14:46] >> that causes the burnout. >> Yeah. Look, I think it's um well, there's there's a few different ways to slice and dice here, but essentially what I hear a lot from people, particularly the men that I work with, which is to be honest, probably about 80% of the people I work with are male. They are often speaking to me because they don't want to burden anyone else with what they're going through. And and I find that really hard to sit with because as a person who is being trusted to hear what's weighing heavy on their chest or what's been clogging their mind, it is such an honorable moment to be in that position to be able to provide that help and support. So it certainly doesn't feel like I'm being burdened at all. It's actually, like I said, an an honor that they trust me enough to be able to be open. Um but at the same time, yes, appreciate that in our relationships and life at work and life in family, you know, it can be problematic to unload and and share what's happening uh without causing new

[15:50] rounds of problems that you then have to navigate through. So, I think it's about documentation. I'm a big big thing on um you know trying to get some data because sometimes we're in these moments and they feel huge and heavy and hard but it's also like a wave right I mean that's what our feelings are they are transitory they'll come they'll go some will be bigger and stronger than others but if you can keep some data around how was my day what rating am I giving it out of 10 and then what am I attributing that rating to so maybe today it's a seven out of 10 because I had a great podcast. I met a new person and I had the most beautiful coffee in the sunshine this morning and maybe yesterday I would rate probably a four because you know I was traveling interstate I was really tired and um you know my my Uber cancelled at the last minute and it was really annoying. So it's about going if you get enough data and then you're getting that context about how am I doing the rating? Well then you actually know what am I working

[16:53] with here? Is this actually a transitory problem that I'm in right now or is there a theme that keeps coming through and maybe I need to do something about that? >> Yeah, I agree. As we were talking, I I guess my my whole background is CRM design and you know building out those workflow systems and as you was talking about those score metrics I I see that we you know we score a lead like as in how good or quality of a lead that is um how likely are they going to convert to the next stage and things like that. We can what you're saying is doing some sort of similar metrics but with ourselves. >> Totally. Totally. And this feeds straight into, you know, when we were opening and the the I guess the purpose of the conversation around the psychological safety and how are you being at work as well, right? Because there are some parts of our roles that are energizing and wonderful and we can lose ourselves in and get into that beautiful flow state where you're just having the most grand old time. And then there are other elements of your work

[17:55] where you're like, "Oh my god, I would rather get punched in the face than do that particular task." And so it's about recognizing that some things are going to be great, some things are going to suck a little bit, but when you're in a business and you're starting to think about, okay, maybe I can get someone on board to support me or maybe I can start delegating a little bit, what am I going to delegate? Who am I what am I going to hand off? I would highly recommend the stuff that you don't like, that you struggle with, that you find energetically depletes you, that isn't good for you. Get rid of that and give it to someone who loves it, right? And if you don't quite know what you like and what you don't like, again, just for a week or two, keep a journal, keep a diary with a column down the middle, the stuff that feels good and the stuff that doesn't. And then again, you've got the data to look at and you're like, "Okay, I actually know what's working for me here and what isn't." And that can then start to make it really practical and easy for you to start scaling in a way that works for you in the most positive way possible.

[19:00] >> Yes. And and as we're talking about this, this is not just about the business. This is also your life. So if there are things within your life because I I mean from all the conversations that I know you and I have had with the different people that we work with the you know brokering and life actually blend together like the impact of it is not just your your work life it's also your family life >> and so what's working at home or what and sure you can't outsource family time but there other ways [laughter] that there are things that you're doing within the family that may not be working. And so what are those things and how do you find >> Yeah, it's about I I think yeah, you're right. It's around doing an edit and and perhaps if that's how we were approaching January as opposed to having, you know, here's my big goal or here's my New Year's resolution. I shall not drink anymore during the week or

[20:04] whatever it is for you. What if what if we modified that a little bit to add a little bit more flexibility and to just go here are some of the things that I'm choosing to limit this year or this is what I'm inviting more of this year. these are the things that I'm just not available for unless it's absolutely necessary because again that gives you a bit of more flexibility and a little bit more playfulness just like you know when you do that finally finally you know get yourself ready to clean out the junk drawer in your the third one in the kitchen is what it usually is and it's filled up with all kinds of random stuff like old bills and bits of string and dead batteries and stuff and you eventually pull it out and you go what even is this stuff like what have I been holding on that I don't really need and doesn't serve any purpose. It feels so good when you clean that stuff out. So, you can do the same thing in the way that you look at your life. So, that editing process of what can I hand over to someone and what can I continue to do that's going to actually be okay for me

[21:08] that I'm comfy with. I'm thinking here in the home life, right? So, for example, um one of the one of the things that drives me crazy is when, you know, my my husband will stack the dishwasher because he doesn't stack it the way that I like it stacked. And it's a really impractical way of stacking it. It drives me bananas. But at the same time, we're talking about stacking the dishwasher. It really doesn't freaking matter. As long as the dishes get in and they come out and they're clean, who cares, right? >> So, I'm happy to delegate that to him knowing it won't be the way that I want it to be. However, there are some other tasks in the home that I might no, I'm going to hold on to this because this actually really matters to me and that's okay. But I think particularly as women uh when we're trying to run businesses and run families, we tend to also overextend ourselves and overfunction. And then there are people in our homes that can underfunction as a result. And that can become problematic because you do train people how to treat you. And if what you're training is don't worry about it, I'll do it. Well, babe, that's what's

[22:12] the whole year is going to look like. So, my suggestion is have a look at what's happening. Um, and is there anything that you would be happy to let go of to give yourself back a little bit of time and a little bit of sanity and a little bit more energy for the stuff that actually matters this year? >> Yeah, I guess. And then think looking at those types of things. So this like I've mentioned and we've talked about through here it it burnout happens because it's a stacking of things or it's a and and and I think maybe it would be good to actually define what burnout is so that people can maybe recognize the signs that they're stacking and it can either be um anxiety or other just frustrations that are occurring because we can you know we talk about anxiety like a sensation or something, but it's it's because something else has happened. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah, that that makes perfect

[23:14] sense. Um, so I guess where where I typically talk around the the burnout piece um particularly with the high performers, right, is because we we've normalized so many of those behaviors that are aligned with it and that we've accepted it as that's just part of the role. That's just part of how we are. and it's actually fundamentally really poor and then will erode you very very quickly. But there is a big difference between being burned out and being stressed. Stress >> stress has got an energy to it. Stress is when you hear people say things like um I've just got too much on. There are just so many things to get through and and they're working in that space of feeling like they're they're running running towards and constantly chasing. Right? That's when you're in that stress space. And yes, this absolutely aligns with the higher peaks in cortisol adrenaline. We get into those loops and cycles. We find it hard to sit back and to rest and to allow ourselves to stop because we're in that cycle of I must be productive. I've got so much on. I've

[24:16] got to do it. I've got to do it. And you're pushing and chasing yourself. Yeah. Burnout is when you've been doing that for so long >> that you become depleted. The language of burnout that you'll hear in people are I just don't have enough time. I don't have enough energy. They move from that moment of feeling like everything's too much to suddenly they don't have enough. >> And it's quite a big distinction. So burnout doesn't happen overnight. Burnout is that cumulative effect of being in that really stressed state for too long where you become more into an adrenal fatigue. your body literally cannot keep giving you the cortisol adrenaline spikes that you've needed to maintain performing in the environment that you're in. And this is where it becomes an issue for businesses because that is fundamentally like not a safe environment to have people working in. If they're having to constantly overwork themselves, do longer hours, put in more, not take breaks, not be able to have holidays, that kind of

[25:20] stuff. Well, you've got a system design problem. You haven't actually set your business up in a way that is sustainable. So, what we see in the brokers, right, that how it pop bubbles up is that you're holding everyone else's stress a lot of the time. Um, there's that constant need to be available. Um, typically if you're working on your own, you don't you don't really have someone else to as a running mate to sense check your decisions. So then you become, you know, in the decision fatigue as well and that pressure and that feeling of responsibility >> just seems to be never ending. So yeah, these are um absolutely environments where your nervous system just never really gets a chance to to rest and recover. >> Yeah. And and we had mentioned this earlier, you know, psychological safety at work. It's um it's a law now. It's becoming a a law and so >> yeah. Yeah. So it's it's at that that

[26:24] same level now of responsibility for a business as the standard that we'd all be familiar with. You know the workplace health and safety. I even remember in my first job working at KFC. You know I had to have all of that training about slippery floors and you know like making sure things were plugged in properly and all of that kind of stuff. Um, now that's that's also stretched itself into the psychological safety paylist too. So it's on the businesses to make sure that they have an audit and an understanding of well what are the factors that could put people's mental health at risk here and moreover what are we doing to mitigate those risks and how are we supporting people that are affected by them. Again, just like at KFC how they had the slip hazard um policy that you had to be across and um you knew what to do if you actually did slip and fall and hurt yourself. It's the same deal now with um the psychological piece. >> Yes. And so, you know, um I I guess where I was going with it, you know, when you're in a team and you're the big

[27:28] boss, that's a lot to look after, let alone your own self. And so you like you were saying um there you know you take on other people's stress and and I guess finding that pocket of relief for yourself let alone the team um or or building those things in um that's going to take a technique or a a process or a new way of thinking um as you move through. >> Yeah. And and I would also add to that a commitment, right? Because let's face it, you you can't make good decisions when you're disregulated, when you're nervous system is out of whack and you yourself are burned out or strung out or stressed out. Like you are not in a good position there to make those really good strategic sound decisions for either yourself, your team, your clients, your family. It's just not a good place to be. So I think yeah there's and this same when we first sat down it's like have a look at your

[28:31] year have a look at your life have a look at the system that you're running yourself through and >> what are the things that you need to modify here >> to make this year be a little bit different to last year particularly if you were amongst the people that feel like they just face planted over the finish line and didn't really allow themselves or have energy to enjoy you know the the festive period because they were recovering from the year that was. Yeah. But maybe let's not do that again. Yeah. Let's switch a little bit [clears throat] and just build in some of those uh disciplined moments of recovery and recalibration so that you're actually going to have this year be a little bit more bountiful for you. >> Yeah. Are you happy to go through some ways somebody could actually I guess because I I think about like the the business leaders the ones who are actually running and managing their brokers and some are just managing themselves and maybe one other >> credit analyst and others are managing

[29:34] multiple teams but the outcomes often come from leadership. So if there was a place to start within someone's where where should they start um to because you know you can't roll out a plan and if it feels like another to-do >> Oh yeah. Oh I'm so with you. I'm so with you babe. Like cuz here's the thing and this is like often when pe people are coming to work with me in clinic, right? They they find themselves kind of stuck in a swamp, right? they they feel very bogged down and smelly and dirty and everything's hard and heavy and they're like, "Man, I feel like I just need to chuck it all in and start again." You don't. You really don't. It's let's just make a few little tweaks, a few little changes, and then you start feeling a bit better and doing a bit better and being a bit better, right? And we know the brains work, they designed to follow pattern. Yeah. So, we create some really nice little neural pathways for it to follow and then it does the work for you. all about the hacking of the awesomeness. So, one of the easiest ways that you can start to shake things up a

[30:40] little bit and feel a little bit more more better, the real science words there, um is literally just having a look at the book ends of your day. And what I mean by the bookends are what are you doing in the morning? What are you doing in the evening? Because we know how important sleep is. >> If you're not getting good sleep, then you're starting your day in a deficit. Likewise, if you're not setting yourself up effectively in the morning, then your whole day you start you feel like you chase your tail, right? So, these are the two most like optimized areas to be able to make a couple little tweaks and changes. From the research I've done, um the most effective way to start your day is just by utilizing that first 20 minutes in a way that is going to work with your neurochemistry and your biology. So, what you want to do there when your brain is a fresh, clean sponge and it's all nice and juy is throw yourself out of bed, put on some pants, and get out into the world. Leave your phone behind. Don't involve yourself in any kind of technology, just you, the

[31:42] air, the ground, a little bit of movement. The science shows that if you spend 20 minutes, the first 20 minutes you're awake, having your heart rate at about 120 beats per minute. So, we're not talking running, not even jogging. We're talking literally just going for a 20-minute walk. Then that will give you up to 12 hours of increased neural function. It's the best ROI ever, right? So, 20 minutes for a walk first thing in the morning. And what will happen then within the first 5 10 minutes is your body will start to naturally wake up properly. And then you'll start to have those moments where the day feels a little bit easier. You'll be noticing things a little bit more. The energy and the oxygen circulating really lovely. And then suddenly you'll have these epiphies or oh, I remember I have to do that. I have to call this person. Blah blah blah. And so by the time you've got home, you have your to-do list done. You know what your day is like. You feel invigorated. Eat some food, have a shower, start your day. Bada bing, bada boom, off you go. At the end of the day,

[32:47] again, I'm a bit of a nerd, so I've done a fair bit of research into how we can optimize the windown period. Really encourage people to revisit and remember what the evening routine looked like when they were little or what are they doing with their children? Because think about it, when we were little kids, there was a system and there was a process between playing or doing school or whatever and going to sleep. And there was steps that you knew that were predictable that happened every single time. And that was your body's way of telling your brain, okay, we're winding down now and it's okay to go to sleep. I think as adults, we tend to go from being high octane doing all the things to then going, okay, and like flicking a light, boom, now I want to be asleep. And then we wonder why we lie there thinking about for three hours. So working with our biology, it's more like a dimmer switch than a flick light, right? So little kid typically you have dinner then they jump in the bath then you do pajamas and then you read a story

[33:49] and then you go to sleep. You can do the same thing as a grown-up or maybe an adult version of that but essentially you want to you know limit the amount of screen time that you're having. You want to kind of keep things nice and calm and quiet. Not have any of those big awkward uncomfortable conversations with your partner. Um, basically it's all about how do we just make this really nice and quiet and restful. Some of my even um revisiting some of the books that they read as children to give themselves story time before going to sleep, which is really quaint and um yeah, it's it's working. So then of course you're getting the kind of sleep that you need and then you're waking up and starting your day in a way that works with your body and you can be find yourself, you know, give it three, four days of this. Honestly, you well, you'd be a different person. It really doesn't take very much. >> No. And I I like it. Um and and as much as we also want to think that everybody had a great childhood, sometimes the sleep routine of um childhood may not

[34:54] have been great. >> May not have looked like that at all. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, and so one of the things for me, my childhood was pretty okay, but I have met enough people to know that if they were to try and replay a childhood sleep routine, it wouldn't be good for them. And so what I have found is um, think about like uh, house music. I don't know if you know house music very much, >> but I I just, you know, there's the windup. So if you think about house music as the wind up in your start of the day, so you can it it starts low, it comes up. And this is how you can get into your day and you you're vibing because you're then heading out. But then as but then house music also winds down >> and it comes down and it almost like stops and goes really nice and quiet where you rest. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Drop the beat. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> But then you know like with that dropping of the beat that hopefully is symbolic for you to go dead to sleep. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

[35:57] Yeah. Look, I I guess it's it's about kind of recognizing that, you know, as we're all listening to this podcast, you know, we are all proper grown-ups, right? You are literally living your life, and you do that on your terms. You get to to say what's in and what's out, what's you're available for and what you're not available for. You get to decide your sleep time. If you want to have cookies for breakfast, you can do that because you're a grown-up, right? So, I guess it's really a a call to arms to take responsibility and go, okay, if my life isn't doing what I want it to be doing, then it's actually on me to do something about that. And yes, I may need some support and I may need an accountability partner or whatever, but it's actually on me to determine and to decide and then to follow through. Like, it's not a Disney movie. No one's coming to save you, right? You got to save your damn self. And sometimes all you really need to do is choose to put yourself at the top of the priority list and decide

[37:00] that yep, I'm going to give myself the gift the first 20 minutes of my day. I'm going to start it differently and just see what happens. >> Yeah. And and hopefully it gives you that space to go, okay, I can now start thinking strategically >> y >> about who I want to be in business, how I want to process what I want, how do I have a great family and other life if you don't have um family, you know what, how do you make the life that you choose? >> Yeah. Yeah. Something I I constantly bang on about is that I' what my biggest wish and hope for all my clients is that they come to a point where they they know and hand on heart will say, "Yeah, I chose my life. I didn't just settle for it." >> Because we all have so much agency and so much opportunity to do whatever it is that is available for us, right? And you've got so many resources and skills. Like there's just so much available. I think that if we can get out of our own way and stop being limiting, then it

[38:04] becomes like so empowering and such a wonderful way to be in the world. >> Yeah. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me, Brahman. Um I think you know if anybody else out there had a great time listening to this conversation as well, um where should they go? Um and what should they be on the lookout from you? So, I spend the majority of my uh time and energy in the social space simply on LinkedIn. So, you can look me up on LinkedIn. Um, probably once or twice a week, I'll drop some content that literally comes out of a session that would have happened that same day. It's very much organic and something will come up that I feel that may be helpful and supportive for other people. So, make sure you look me up and um and hit that follow button so you can get some free therapy. Um, but if people wanted to work with me directly, then yeah, literally it's just shoot me a note or jump on my website. I've I've tried to make the booking mechanic as easy as

[39:06] doing something fabulous like going to a restaurant or booking a day spa. You can literally just go and choose the uh the day and time combination that works for you and um and we can hang out together in real life or via Zoom. >> Perfect. Um, if you do have questions or if you would like Brin and I to have a follow-up conversation, let us know. Um, I'm looking forward to doing more conversations on how brokers can optimize their world. Um, again, thank you very much for joining me, Roman, and um, I look forward to the next one. >> Thank you so much, Katie. It's been an absolute delight. >> You're welcome. All right, see you later, people.