Chapter 1: Intro & what is SEO?
0:00Hi and welcome to Broker Tools, where we unpack the tools, systems, and strategies that help brokers optimize the way they work. I'm Katie, your host,
0:088 secondsand today we are talking about one of the most misunderstood but powerful growth channels for brokers, SEO.
0:1616 secondsJoining me for this conversation is Zero from Marketing Agency Pro. Zero works with brokers and professional firms to
0:2323 secondshelp them get found by the right clients online, not through ads, but through strategic keyword optimization and
0:3131 secondssearchdriven content. In this episode, we are breaking down how SEO actually works for brokers, how keyword
0:3838 secondsoptimization connects real people to your business, and how the right search strategy can turn your website into a consistent lead generation engine.
0:4848 secondsIf you have ever wondered why some brokers seem to show up everywhere on Google or in an AI chat and how you can do the same, this conversation is for you. Zero, welcome to the pod.
Chapter 2: How Cyril got into SEO for mortgage brokers
1:001 minuteThank you for having me.
1:011 minute, 1 secondUm, I'm really excited. We were having a pre-hat obviously um and you know, we were just saying that SEO is really the
1:091 minute, 9 secondsworld of experiments. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. Um before we go into
1:161 minute, 16 secondsthis whole world of those um great unknown experiments, how did you first become an SEO agent? So I was doing
1:241 minute, 24 secondsFacebook ads when I enter was in that digital world and one day um like a
1:321 minute, 32 secondsbusiness previous business partner slashmentor asked me to help him for an SEO project
1:391 minute, 39 secondsand I thought I knew about SEO um and as I started working on the project with SEO experts I realized how much I didn't
1:481 minute, 48 secondsknow but also how much I love that it was a new challenge you know I was like we'd Facebook I was like I've done so much of that you know I wanted something
1:561 minute, 56 secondselse a little bit so it was very interesting challenge and but after that project like my mortgage broker was
2:042 minutes, 4 secondstelling me on how they had another agency doing their SEO and it didn't work you know after like six to seven
2:122 minutes, 12 secondsmonths and I was like if you want I can give it a try why not and after like maybe month
Chapter 3: 52 leads in one month from organic search
2:192 minutes, 19 secondsnumber two they started getting leads and and it just started working like really well. Like they had their leads record last month, like 52 leads and and
2:292 minutes, 29 secondsthat's how I thought, well, look, I'm I'm on to something here. And I might just, you know, with with marketing, if you try to help everyone, you attract no
2:372 minutes, 37 secondsone and I kind of needed to find a bit of my niche because I really want just to keep going on that SEO adventure. And because it went well with the my
2:452 minutes, 45 secondsmortgage broker, I thought, oh my, you know, I might just try to target to find more mortgage brokers to help. And that's kind of how it started really.
2:542 minutes, 54 secondsNice. So, you're not just an SEO agent.
2:572 minutes, 57 secondsYou actually specify in helping mortgage brokers particularly.
3:023 minutes, 2 secondsYes. And we started doing Facebook ads uh recently as well. But know my main like the the the the things I've been
3:103 minutes, 10 secondsdoing for the last three to four years now is really SEO for mortgage brokers and I do add my knowledge you know for
3:183 minutes, 18 secondscopyrightitings and direct response marketing. I try to infuse it as well to kind of you know get the conversion happening as well as the traffic.
3:273 minutes, 27 secondsNice. And I think you know this coming back to what I originally said in the beginning this is the great experiment.
3:343 minutes, 34 secondsObviously, you had a different career before you got into SEO, but through the different iterations and growth that you went through, you just found and honed
3:423 minutes, 42 secondsin how well you could really master the process for people in mortgage broking.
3:483 minutes, 48 secondsAnd what were, I guess, the key components that made you realize that this was the right decision for you?
Chapter 4: SEO defined: the work you do so Google refers you
3:573 minutes, 57 secondsBecause actually, what I might think is a good way to start is what is SEO? like is it can we break that down so that
4:064 minutes, 6 secondspeople understand the components of what makes SEO SEO compared to any other form of marketing?
4:124 minutes, 12 secondsWell, it's the work that you need to do so you can be referred by Google. And it's funny because sometimes if you type best mortgage broker or best, you know,
4:214 minutes, 21 secondsknee surgeon or whatever you're looking for and what's ranking is not really is not always the best is the one or the
4:314 minutes, 31 secondsthe company that has the best SEO. And so SEO really is what helps you to appear on Google and all different type
4:394 minutes, 39 secondsof search as well being Bing and um you know Safari and all those different browsers and um as well as with Google
4:474 minutes, 47 secondsmap what helps you to rank you know when someone is looking for a mortgage broker near them or physio near them and um and
4:544 minutes, 54 secondsit's funny because I didn't know you know obviously a few years ago what SEO was and didn't realize that it's very
5:015 minutes, 1 secondvery much manufactured by people like me that do everything that we can so that our clients rank number one.
Chapter 5: Why SEO leads convert better than Facebook leads
5:095 minutes, 9 secondsAnd I I guess the main difference from that as a result is the leads that you're generating from SEO there are
5:185 minutes, 18 secondspeople that are coming for you because they have been researching for an answer. they have been researching for a specific type of loan or they have been
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsasking questions about how to refinance or how to get uh into SMSF and then your website appeared Google is ref or GPT
5:355 minutes, 35 secondsnow and Gemini is referring your website and suddenly they are inquiring so they are coming after you as opposed to
5:435 minutes, 43 secondsFacebook ads where you know people are watching for like cute uh video of dogs or video of cute dogs and they get
5:505 minutes, 50 secondsdistracted then they apply and then they go back to their videos um where there's a bit of a distraction but they kind of forget what they have applied when you
5:595 minutes, 59 secondscall them so they don't always answer and things like that whereas people coming from Google the intent is a lot higher and we found that when you call
Chapter 6: Keyword intent: what it is and why it matters
6:076 minutes, 7 secondsthem you know the answer rate and people going ahead this the conversion is a lot higher as well okay so I guess what you're trying to
6:166 minutes, 16 secondssay is with Facebook ads for example um the way you attract clients It uses a little bit of SEO because there's
6:246 minutes, 24 secondskeywords, but they've been tracking your intent andor behaviors or what you've watched or what you've clicked on over
6:316 minutes, 31 secondsthe time. And it can be hit and miss because you could be a topic adjacent to whatever that person is is searching
6:396 minutes, 39 secondsfor. Whereas SEO, because it's using what we call keyword intent, um they're
6:456 minutes, 45 secondslooking for particular word phrases joined together like mortgage broker in Tasmania or mortgage broker more
6:536 minutes, 53 secondsspecifically in Los. Um that intent means that they're looking more closely to that particular person or I'm a nurse
7:027 minutes, 2 secondsand I am looking for my first investment property. It's having those like key
7:097 minutes, 9 secondsword intents means that that person is more of a prospect than someone who's just generally looking and generally
7:157 minutes, 15 secondshaving those uh possibilities of being the right client for you.
7:207 minutes, 20 secondsAnd I think they are more ready to go ahead because they are more active in their search. And on Facebook, you can
7:287 minutes, 28 secondsstill get similar, you know, those ones as well because they use Facebook as well. Obviously, they're on f Facebook as well. But I think that they just
7:367 minutes, 36 secondsremember you a bit more because they went through your website or they read an article that I've written
7:437 minutes, 43 secondsand um and then and you know beneath their brand obviously and they are more likely to to remember when you're
7:517 minutes, 51 secondscalling and say hey I'm from you know XYZ finance and like oh yeah I read this article and you know the conversation is a lot easier that way as well.
7:597 minutes, 59 secondsNice. And I guess if we were to look at this as two types of in audiences, the value of SEO compared to like a Facebook
Chapter 7: The buyer intent difference between SEO and paid ads
8:078 minutes, 7 secondsad is that Facebook's going to present an ad generically based on a few keywords that someone is searching for.
8:158 minutes, 15 secondsSo they might be looking for a mortgage broker and they might be looking for somebody who does investment properties, but it may not be always specific to a
8:248 minutes, 24 secondsnurse, though you can definitely hone that in. Um whereas SEO really is almost
8:318 minutes, 31 secondslike an educational guide that walks through all the pain points a particular
8:378 minutes, 37 secondsperson or demographic that is very very niche is looking for and it hopefully
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsspeaks to the heart of the person um through particular words and phrasing.
8:498 minutes, 49 secondsAnd whether you were creating the content for it or the broker themselves is creating this content. It's really
8:558 minutes, 55 secondsthat process of who is your avatar and what questions are they asking? What
9:029 minutes, 2 secondsparticular words do they often repeat repeatedly say and how do you put that type of information into your written
9:099 minutes, 9 secondscontent because that ends up being the value piece.
9:149 minutes, 14 secondsYeah. And that will you know once you know what they are asking Google then you know you provide the best answer.
9:229 minutes, 22 secondsAnd um and I think the the behavior is also different when people on on they are researching on Google they are
9:309 minutes, 30 secondsresearching for a specific service whereas they might have an interest when they are on Facebook but when they on Facebook they are not always researching
9:399 minutes, 39 secondsthey are not actively researching for like a mortgage broker on Facebook but they see ads about mortgage bro you know loan find first-time home buyer loans or
9:479 minutes, 47 secondsall and that might attract them but they are not they don't have the same behavior and I the behavior when they are on Google is a lot more in commercial.
9:569 minutes, 56 secondsYeah. And and so this is where the value of SEO can be better than say ads in and of a moment because of the buyer intent.
10:0510 minutes, 5 secondsThose who are pre-ressearching are actually more likely to go through and finish a a sign up form or document because of that process.
10:1610 minutes, 16 secondsYeah, exactly. a lot a lot you know what happened is you send all the documents um you know they say yeah I want to go ahead and you ask for all their know pay
10:2410 minutes, 24 secondsslips and all of that and it's a lot of information and um I think when they have that experience from Google it just
10:3310 minutes, 33 secondsseems to work a little bit more easily um like just when we look at the numbers in conversion and um but the the other
10:4210 minutes, 42 secondsknow the counterpart however is SEO takes a lot longer The good thing with Facebook obviously is that you can get leads maybe a little bit more quickly.
Chapter 8: SEO takes longer but produces premium leads
10:5210 minutes, 52 secondsUm, so I I guess it depends on how you know how long your website has been live and a few other things. Um, but that's the other thing is SEO that has that
11:0111 minutes, 1 secondpremium leads but it just takes longer to get there.
11:0411 minutes, 4 secondsYeah. Um, and I guess this is the great experiment um of SEO because most people
Chapter 9: What good SEO looks like vs bad SEO experiences
11:1111 minutes, 11 secondshave had a bad experience of SEO. So what would you say are the typical
11:1811 minutes, 18 secondsoffers that are out there and how you would probably operate differently so that you would get clients results?
11:2511 minutes, 25 secondsWhat's the difference between those types of services?
11:2811 minutes, 28 secondsSo for all the campaigns I've taken on including know my mortgage broker like the first client and um and something even if you want to do it yourself
11:3611 minutes, 36 secondsthat's actually one thing you can do is publishing a huge amount of highly relevant high quality articles and
11:4511 minutes, 45 secondscreating multiple loan pages and um we go really really hard we we spent a lot
11:5311 minutes, 53 secondsof work in the at the first at the start and I think that's the main difference is you you need to be very topical and
Chapter 10: Volume and quality of content: 60,000 words in the first weeks
12:0012 minutesfor Google to be able to trust your website and think you're the expert it needs you to provide a lot of content
12:0812 minutes, 8 secondsthat is proving it and that's how that's that's I think the main difference is the amount of words that we are writing
12:1612 minutes, 16 secondsit could be up to like 60,000 words in the first few weeks um and when it's done right then suddenly you're very
12:2412 minutes, 24 secondsvery relevant very topical And then it sends it sends some very some strong signal to Google and it cannot it cannot
12:3312 minutes, 33 secondsignore you anymore. Um there's other things that helps as well like we want to make the website as fast as possible.
12:4012 minutes, 40 secondsYou want to make the website clickable and work on because sometimes it's two different section is like there's SEO on side and
Chapter 11: Domain authority and backlinks explained
12:4712 minutes, 47 secondsthen there's conversion rate on the other side where I think is best when it's merge where even if you're producing content for SEO try to make it
12:5612 minutes, 56 secondsa bit more compelling so people click on it and read it especially if there are articles that are ranking you know
13:0413 minutes, 4 secondsonline so for people to to go to to your website and read your article and I think it's that mix of quality and volume that makes the biggest
13:1313 minutes, 13 secondsdifference. And the other thing that I found is not where where I let's just say the most challenging elements is
13:2213 minutes, 22 secondsdepending on the keywords you want to be ranking for. If you want to go for very competitive keywords, you need to have a high domain authority and you generate
13:3013 minutes, 30 secondsthat. One thing that determines that is how many of other high authority website
13:3613 minutes, 36 secondslink back to your site and that's a whole that's a bit of a Pandora box.
13:4213 minutes, 42 secondsThere's so many things happening. So like you have to be very careful on how you do that. But that's another way where we found that nice little avenue
13:5013 minutes, 50 secondsand strategy to get the right amount of links and it's called backlinks that refer back to your website that say to Google, hey look, we have
13:5913 minutes, 59 secondsall that content. It's really good. It's relevant. It's awesome. People love it.
Chapter 12: Backlink strategy: what works, what doesn't, link exchanges
14:0414 minutes, 4 secondsBut not only that, we have all those other website that you trust that Google already trust that is now telling you to trust us. And that's the combination
14:1214 minutes, 12 secondsreally gets this this increase in ranking.
14:1414 minutes, 14 secondsYes. So, um, what I hear for you from what you're saying with SEO, there is
14:2114 minutes, 21 secondsthere are all these like elements that make it really work. Um, and ultimately it comes down to are you authority
14:3014 minutes, 30 secondswithin this particular search domain that somebody might be looking for. So, sure you might be a mortgage broker, but
14:3714 minutes, 37 secondsthat's one level of um keyword optimization.
14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsum it's now getting into the nitty-gritty of uh optimizing the authority. So if you specialize for
14:4914 minutes, 49 secondsexample in nurses, it's what headaches or what experiences do nurses have and do you have a content page that's
14:5814 minutes, 58 secondsdedicated to say a nurse who specializes in pediatrics versus a nurse who
15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsspecializes in emergency care. um that because emergency care nurses do different things to pediatric nurses and
15:1515 minutes, 15 secondshow they operate their day, how they earn their income. You know what what what we're trying to do is build out a
15:2315 minutes, 23 secondswhole profile of a person and then make that content around that. But then how does Google know that you are the
15:3015 minutes, 30 secondstrusted authority? And then this is what you're saying the backlink strategy is is say another directory or another referral partner says hey if you need to
15:3915 minutes, 39 secondstalk to somebody about uh emergency care ness mortgage broking loans go here.
Chapter 13: Niche SEO: nurses, LMI waivers, and topical authority
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsAnd even if you know for instance like an accountant or you work with know property groups or um even lawyers it
15:5315 minutes, 53 secondsdepends on what the but that have a website that somehow is relevant to what you do. is under the finance umbrella
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsand you can you know that's a good way to get some backlinks. Um the only thing you don't want to do is what we call link exchange. So if you get a backlink
16:1116 minutes, 11 secondsor a link from let's say your accountant ideally you don't want to give the accountant a link back. You don't want
16:1816 minutes, 18 secondsto link back to their website because Google because a lot of people were doing that in the past and Google was like it doesn't count if you just keep
16:2616 minutes, 26 secondsexchanging then it doesn't really matter. is not as genuine. So I have to be a bit careful with um this and yeah
16:3416 minutes, 34 secondsfor instance with a nurse like topic that ranks a lot is waving your LMI and having a page about LMI and um that's a
16:4216 minutes, 42 secondstopic that's relevant more to nurses and also the way they are being paid and how it influences the the banks to approve
16:4916 minutes, 49 secondstheir loan and if you just write content and really um what you are explaining to the nurse that you're helping you know
16:5816 minutes, 58 secondsalmost you just recall record it and then you know you can even use chat GPT to just recall what you're saying and then just clean the layout and you can
Chapter 14: How to record your knowledge and turn it into blogs
17:0717 minutes, 7 secondsjust publish those blogs because that's what you have said and every day or maybe not every day but let's say you do that two or three times a week the way I
17:1617 minutes, 16 secondssee it is um it's like it's really really like gardening you plant your tree you plant your seed and then it
17:2317 minutes, 23 secondswill grow a little bit every every season it will grow a little bit more and then if later on you want to do proper SEO what you have done by
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondspublishing those blog would definitely help with whoever is taking your your campaign but also sometimes you do a very good blogs that actually no one
17:4017 minutes, 40 secondselse has um covered very well and then it will rank even if you don't have all the other fancy things that we do um you
Chapter 15: SEO is gardening: plant, grow, harvest
17:4917 minutes, 49 secondscan sometimes have uh leads from that so I guess the one thing you could do is like producing those blogs and then yes
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondsthere are other businesses that you know that you work with that could perhaps link back to your website.
18:0418 minutes, 4 secondsNice. And I guess it would really be good to define what is proper SEO. What does that look like? Because sure
18:1118 minutes, 11 secondskeywords are one element but there are several other elements and we mentioned backlinking as another form of an
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondselement and whether it's an accountant or you having done a comment on Reddit or something else um that is another
18:2818 minutes, 28 secondsbacklink um if we were to give out like a a framework of what good SEO looks like what would that be? So there are really
Chapter 16: The four legs of SEO: content, on-page, technical, backlinks
18:3618 minutes, 36 secondslike four legs with SEO. There's the content. There's what we call the on page which is know for instance internal linking and how pages are linking to
18:4518 minutes, 45 secondseach other. Then there's all the technical SEO know how fast the website is. There are things called like schema
18:5218 minutes, 52 secondsmarkup which is helping Google helping the algorithm better understand your um
18:5818 minutes, 58 secondswebsite. So we give specific codes that helps the the the engine like Google to
19:0519 minutes, 5 secondsbetter read your website. So um that's more like a technical aspect and then there's what I mentioned the backlink
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsand I guess the the proper SEO is to know touch on all of those. Um but for instance when it comes to do blogs
19:2019 minutes, 20 secondsone key direction would be to be very relevant. Try to be relevant and unique, but as relevant as possible and always um go more like specific to a a a topic.
19:3319 minutes, 33 secondsGo as deep as you can and you're more likely as opposed to try to write about everything all these type of loans. It's good to go very very specific. get some
19:4219 minutes, 42 secondswins there and then you can move to another vertical. And there are things like when you create a page like a loan page for
Chapter 17: H1, H2, H3 tags: the common error and how to fix it
19:5119 minutes, 51 secondsfor instance refinancing then you know every page has what we call headings. Um so you know you can
19:5919 minutes, 59 secondssee yourself the headings but you need to tag those heading in a specific way. So there's like H1, H2, H3 and so on.
20:0820 minutes, 8 secondsAnd one error we often see is pages that h because of how the website is built
20:1520 minutes, 15 secondswithout the SEO in mind. Sometimes they they we can see two different or three different H1 ones. So we just need to
20:2220 minutes, 22 secondsremove the tags as simply just so it is only one H1 per page. Then you want to have multiple H2s and then some H3s. So
20:3020 minutes, 30 secondsthis this kind of type of thing that you do as well that you just tag every single title in a specific way that makes it easier for Google to really
20:3920 minutes, 39 secondsknow what you want to be ranking for on that specific page.
20:4220 minutes, 42 secondsYes. And so what you're really saying is there is like there's the user experience and how they experience your website. So they understand that this is
20:5020 minutes, 50 secondsthe content that it is about. But then there is what we call the robot. Yes.
20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsReading algorithm. And because the robot needs to know what your website is talking about, they notice H1 tags. Um,
21:0621 minutes, 6 secondsthey notice H2 tags. They will notice these like markings within your document. Um, because essentially a web page is like a giant document.
21:1721 minutes, 17 secondsYeah, exactly.
21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsUm, and it's saying, "Hey, notice these patterns of behaviors. This thing is the main subject. So, pull that out." But if
21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsyou have too many main subjects, it's it gets too confused because you're like, I don't understand what the topic is about anymore because you've got H1, H1, H1.
21:3421 minutes, 34 secondsWhereas it's almost like main topic, then H2 is like a subtopic, and then H3 is like a sub subtopic.
Chapter 18: Schema markup and why AI needs it more than Google did
21:4321 minutes, 43 secondsExactly. And it's funny because um Google became smarter and smarter in
21:5021 minutes, 50 secondsunderstanding what what the human want and understanding what we do. So even if sometimes some of those were done really
21:5921 minutes, 59 secondswell, but if the content was still very high quality, you could rank. What is interesting is at least at this stage it
22:0722 minutes, 7 secondskind of revert back a little bit with AI. So AI needs more of those marking
22:1422 minutes, 14 secondsnow than uh you you would need to rank on Google. It's a bit more complicated than that. But the point here is that
22:2222 minutes, 22 secondsall those marking are even more important now not only to rank on Google it helps but also for AI to same find
22:2922 minutes, 29 secondsyou and understand oh this might be the expert that I'm looking for. Yes, I think we call it schema um in in our
22:3722 minutes, 37 secondsworld of technology, but when you think about it, it's really like data like can we extract this data out to say that this is the key topic of interest.
22:4922 minutes, 49 secondsUm it is no different to setting up a CRM. CRM have their own schema data and when you're on boarding a client through
22:5622 minutes, 56 secondsit, you're collecting data about that client and their lending position and and that information gets stored in your
23:0423 minutes, 4 secondsCRM in these like defined fields so that if you need to extract that at a later stage, you can. And now with AI,
23:1323 minutes, 13 secondsum, it's kind of using those same processes because when you've marked what this piece of information actually
23:2023 minutes, 20 secondsmeans, they can now do what we call semantic search. Yes.
23:2523 minutes, 25 secondsYeah. Okay, cool. I'm making sure I'm understanding you correctly and I'm also using what I know and maybe what others
23:3223 minutes, 32 secondsin the industry or what maybe brokers understand. Um, if you don't understand any of this and you want us to break it down further, please let us know. Um,
23:4123 minutes, 41 secondsobviously I don't want to overexlain to anything to anybody, but I just think sometimes SEO is such a big topic and
23:4923 minutes, 49 secondsnow that we've got AI SEO coming in um, or Gentig or however you choose to use this language, SEO has now changed from
Chapter 19: SEO is now Search Everywhere Optimisation
23:5823 minutes, 58 secondssearch engine optimization to search everywhere optimization.
24:0224 minutes, 2 secondsYes. Yes. Exactly. And they very interesting like now we have or my
Chapter 20: ChatGPT and Gemini are referring broker websites
24:1124 minutes, 11 secondsclients they are saying how they they they're they are getting inquiries and when they ask how did you find about this they say oh well I was asking ch
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsabout refinancing and how I can do this and how I can do that and then they just you know referred to your website and um
24:2724 minutes, 27 secondsI think people sometime before even looking for a specific agent like a company or a mortgage broker they want
24:3424 minutes, 34 secondssome clarification and um they are using AI for that more and more. They might still use Google when they are very
24:4224 minutes, 42 secondscommercial and they say hey mortgage broker near me for instance. Um but then AI helps you in some ways to be in front of them before uh before everyone else.
24:5524 minutes, 55 secondsum you know once once you start ranking on AI obviously and the funny thing is with SEO we can see we have a lot of
25:0525 minutes, 5 secondsdata with keywords and volume and how many times every month people are typing for this specific
25:1225 minutes, 12 secondsterm. So, for instance, mortgage broker for teachers, maybe, you know, there's like 50 search a month and I'm, you know, refinancing my home loan. There's
25:2125 minutes, 21 secondsmaybe, you know, 1,000 search a month or whatever the amount is. But then for AI, it's a lot more specific and we still
25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsdon't really measure. Now, we start having our SEO tools that start telling us, you know, how you're mentioned on AI and what you're mentioned for. So, we
25:3825 minutes, 38 secondsstart getting more and more of that data. So, we will be able to track. But for now, I think it's kind of like a bit of a guess game and really knowing the
Chapter 21: How to use AI to generate your content strategy
25:4625 minutes, 46 secondsaudience. And sometimes what I like to do is instead of trying to think, oh, what are the keywords or what they or
25:5425 minutes, 54 secondswhat are people are looking for is more more about well this is one topic you know about refinancing. How about I just
26:0226 minutes, 2 secondsshare everything I know about refinancing and what are all the topics I can write about refinancing. And one thing I do often that anyone can do is
26:1026 minutes, 10 secondsyou ask GPT, hey, I want to become the number one mortgage broker to be found about refinancing. Give me all the
26:1726 minutes, 17 secondstopics I can write about. And it's going to give you a lot of topics. Not all of them are good, but you can start seeing.
26:2226 minutes, 22 secondsAnd then you say, ah, you just say, categorize them for me. And you put that into five, six categories. And then you take one category and you say, can you
26:3026 minutes, 30 secondsadd three more topics here that are um funny or three more topics that are um controversy and um or that um people
26:3926 minutes, 39 secondswill be surprised about and you just have all those the other way to qualify the the question and then you start getting so many different topics that AI
26:4826 minutes, 48 secondshelp you to find and if you do that you produce all the content over time um you will really yeah you're more likely to
26:5726 minutes, 57 secondsrank it's kind of using AI to help to rank on AI yeah it and I guess this is where the
27:0427 minutes, 4 secondsquality versus quantity kind of, you know, matching occurs cuz sometimes you like want the quality and
27:1327 minutes, 13 secondsthe way to get quality is answering those frequently asked questions. And sure, you might have quantity as in lots
27:2127 minutes, 21 secondsand lots of blog posts, but if you're not actually directoring directly rather asking um or answering rather frequently
27:3027 minutes, 30 secondsasked questions or questions that the person is is trying to process or even answering questions that they don't know that they need to ask. It's it's almost
27:4027 minutes, 40 secondsstepping into the shoes of the other person and knowing the journey they're on and what pieces of information that
27:4727 minutes, 47 secondsthey don't know that they need to know to get to the end result and being able to service that.
Chapter 22: Quality vs quantity: the human filter in AI content
27:5227 minutes, 52 secondsYeah. Exactly. And um when it comes back to the to the question um think you know when when in terms of quality with using
28:0028 minutesAI the one thing you always have need a human to be selective and say you know out of 10 topics or 10 questions you
28:0928 minutes, 9 secondswill see ah not all of them are good but then you will find a couple that are really good and that's the one you go with and then obviously that's even
28:1728 minutes, 17 secondsbetter when you know often I speak with the mortgage broker and say oh when people are on the phone with you, what do they ask you and tell me more about
28:2628 minutes, 26 secondsthis and we go a little bit deeper and yeah that's where you get something that's very unique and Google value that
Chapter 23: Your unique insights are your biggest SEO asset
28:3328 minutes, 33 secondsso if you put those very unique thought that you cannot get on uh you cannot Google that you cannot get from chbd or
28:4128 minutes, 41 secondsgemini because they are your own specific strategy and there are very specific questions um and that's highly
28:4828 minutes, 48 secondsvaluable especially in Google's eyes because it does value uniqueness and That uniqueness means that you are the topical authority.
28:5628 minutes, 56 secondsThat's what we call it in SEO. But yeah, exactly. Yeah. And ultimately that's the power of SEO.
29:0429 minutes, 4 secondsAnd whether you are looking to be found on Google or chat, it's making sure that you know your topic inside and out and
29:1229 minutes, 12 secondsare able to share those nuggets of wisdom in a almost like a old it's almost like when you back in the days of
29:2029 minutes, 20 secondshigh school. I don't even know if people think like this, but you know, you have all these like essays and your teacher had to go through and mark off
29:2929 minutes, 29 secondswhat was relevant or not to for you to get an A on. And sure, we're not trying to grade people in this conversation.
29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsBut we are trying to make sure that we get the quality of the lead through and filter out nonquality leads, but how do
29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsyou do that? This is where SEO can be the solution. Yeah, it does because you know like I mentioned before they are
Chapter 24: Filtering leads with intake forms
29:5129 minutes, 51 secondsmore in that behavior of looking and then of course you know that's not SEO related but to filter out we know we do
29:5929 minutes, 59 secondsadd a couple of questions in the forms when people apply um that helps filtering some of maybe the lowquality
30:0730 minutes, 7 secondsleads would say um but if anything if there are people that are educating themselves from the content you're producing then they are more educated.
30:1730 minutes, 17 secondsthem to understand more what needs to happen and when they are speaking with you they are already a little bit couple
30:2530 minutes, 25 secondsof steps further than you know even before when they were started looking and um of course this you know if we
30:3230 minutes, 32 secondslook at first-time home buyers versus people looking for investment for instance the first-time home buyers they
30:3930 minutes, 39 secondsare they just there would be more work they take more more time to turn into a return on investment
30:4730 minutes, 47 secondsbut the competitive but it's not as competitive as investment loans and that's even more true with Facebook ads
30:5630 minutes, 56 secondsand um and the point is really that we with the different topics that you're picking they will have different level
31:0531 minutes, 5 secondsof competitiveness and also know the times it takes to turn someone into a client so for instance
31:1431 minutes, 14 secondsSMSF loan is very specific And uh that might be a good niche. There are some um
31:2131 minutes, 21 secondswebsite that rank really well just for that term and they get really good quality leads on that. And I think the
31:2931 minutes, 29 secondsquality comes with the relevancy. So if you're very relevant, very specific, if you're very specific, like you mentioned, you have a website that just
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondsabout mortgage broker helping nurses. I think that will attract higher quality leads because of that strong level of you know specificity.
31:4631 minutes, 46 secondsYeah. And the specificity is again coming back to being a topical authority
31:5331 minutes, 53 secondsand then I guess with authority creates authenticity and then because they've read enough content they've
32:0032 minutespre-ressearched they've kind of self chosen um to trust you. So when you get onto that phone call with them, they've
32:0932 minutes, 9 secondsread enough, understood enough and are making some sort of affirmative action decision to move forward and
32:1532 minutes, 15 secondstherefore your overcoming objections become less because they've they've done the research they've needed and had the
32:2432 minutes, 24 secondsanswers that they need to hear before they even book the call. Yeah. Yeah. No, what what were you going to say?
Chapter 25: Page two keywords: the low-hanging fruit strategy
32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsJust a side thought is what um is good as well with that is when you start getting traffic from to your website
32:4132 minutes, 41 secondsthen you can use Facebook ads to target that traffic specifically and that's when you have very low cost leads and
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondsyou know is always that it's better if people see you everywhere they see you on Facebook they see you on Google but that also helps with you know something
33:0033 minutesthat you might consider if you wanted to do invest in Facebook ads is start focusing on people that went to your website and you know that the traffic
Chapter 26: How SEO and Facebook ads work together
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsthat went to your website and you can do a lookalike audience of that traffic as well on Facebook know people that look like people that went to your website
33:1533 minutes, 15 secondsand um know those could be like the lowhanging fruits with paid marketing and um what one thing I would say with
33:2433 minutes, 24 secondsthe just on the low hanging fruits topic is one thing I that we look that you
33:3033 minutes, 30 secondswant to look at is um what other keywords that are on page two and often
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondsyou know it's very you do a lot of work or things happens and then you're ranking but you're just ranking page two and those are all the lowhanging fruits
33:4633 minutes, 46 secondsbecause it already says to it already tells you that Google gives you some level of authority and trust because you
33:5433 minutes, 54 secondsare ranking on page two and now it's just about you know looking at what the ones are on page three are doing that you're not doing and try to get that to
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondspage one. But those are, you know, just on the topic of low hanging fruits, kind of moving to another topic. That's a good thing that you can look into.
34:1034 minutes, 10 secondsYes. Ultimately, what you're trying to say is SEO is like a a free free lunch in a way. Like if you're going to a
34:1734 minutes, 17 secondsnetworking event, they often give you like this free buffet of opportunities for you to learn and grow. And um that's what you know SEO offers to a prospect.
34:2834 minutes, 28 secondsIt's a free way to first learn and grow using keywords as optimization to get
34:3534 minutes, 35 secondsthat person in, but then you can amplify it to a paid lunch or a paid event.
34:4034 minutes, 40 secondsI say that loosely. Um, I'm just trying to use analogies that people might understand or know.
34:4734 minutes, 47 secondsUm, but that's what Facebook ads is. Do you know what I mean? you're willing to elevate to the next level of paid because you'll get a different level of
34:5534 minutes, 55 secondsclient and a different level of intention if you've already done your pre-ressearch through your free channel. Yeah.
35:0235 minutes, 2 secondsBecause this is you now doing your pre- research. You're like, I now know this particular kind of client. I've now marked this particular client in my CRM
35:1035 minutes, 10 secondsas a great kind of client. I want more people like X um or Jimmy or whatever
35:1835 minutes, 18 secondstheir name is. if you want because you've now taken people through a great journey and learned how they understood
35:2535 minutes, 25 secondswhy they chose you, what made them pick you, and how they became a great client, you can now go out and use Facebook ads
35:3235 minutes, 32 secondsto go, um, this is what we call the lookalikes.
Chapter 27: Defining your ideal client for SEO and ad targeting
35:3735 minutes, 37 secondsIf there's more jimmies in this world, I want that type of person. He likes this.
35:4235 minutes, 42 secondsHe was in this industry. um and he has these type of specificities about him and his family, you know, then you can
35:5035 minutes, 50 secondsgo and really hone in to an audience very similar to your favorite client.
35:5535 minutes, 55 secondsAnd a good way to find who Jimmy is when if you're hesitating between different clients that's know I've learned from someone Susie where you know it's not really
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondsabout Jimmy you know like it's not male or female think of oh who should be my ideal
36:1136 minutes, 11 secondsclient and I like this question where they are the ones that give you the highest amount of money for the less amount of effort that you can help the
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsmost or you can provide the highest the greatest result And when you think of those like three things, like, oh yeah, that could be this type of people.
36:2936 minutes, 29 secondsYeah. And and when you know and understand your customer the best, like the ones that you would consider your favorites, then you know what did they
36:3836 minutes, 38 secondsknow, what didn't they know, what actually helped them choose you. You can then start recrafting more content,
36:4636 minutes, 46 secondswhether it's via Facebook ads or just basic SEO ads to meet that kind of targeted audience.
36:5536 minutes, 55 secondsYeah.
36:5636 minutes, 56 secondsYeah. Perfect. I'm glad that we've kind of like really uh framed it up because at the end of the day, we're trying to
37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsmake sure that this piece um of podcast is actually helpful for you. So whether you do it or obviously you know serial's
37:1037 minutes, 10 secondshere to help you because you know you you understand the weeds and the mechanics a little bit more and and I want to be clear that SEO is it can be
37:1937 minutes, 19 secondscomplex if if you don't understand some of the mechanics. Um you can do good SEO by yourself. Um but if you want to
37:2737 minutes, 27 secondsuplevel it then obviously go with an agency like serial um because it really does make an impact because they can do
37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsother tinier little things. For example, I understand you know even when you do um Google my business attachments to it.
Chapter 28: DIY SEO vs working with an agency
37:4437 minutes, 44 secondsIt really can help elevate that type of thing. And there's just other like other little outside or off- page SEO that
37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsreally elevates being that topical authority. One good tip with Google Google map and Google my business is
Chapter 29: Google My Business: tips for ranking locally
37:5937 minutes, 59 secondswhen you ask for a Google review um and I know it's hard because sometimes you there's so much to do and you have that extra thing to think about but then if
38:0838 minutes, 8 secondsyou think about it you know first of all Google reviews is really good the more the more you have the higher you can uh the most is the more it's helping you
38:1538 minutes, 15 secondsand the more you can rank um but sometime if you see a competitor that has less review but is ranking higher on Google map for a search that seems very
38:2438 minutes, 24 secondssimilar sometimes because the reviews are mentioning what they are doing whether it's no intentional or not. So
38:3238 minutes, 32 secondswhen you ask a review, if you have a good relationship, it's good to say, "Hey, can you just speak a little bit of
38:3938 minutes, 39 secondshow we helped you and what um what you were after, you know, can you just just mention how you bought your first home or how we help you uh re renegotiate
38:4838 minutes, 48 secondsyour loan or with your innov and something like that. So prompt people to be a bit more specific and add a little bit more details and if they know that
38:5638 minutes, 56 secondsit helps you and if you especially if you're starting or even you know regardless of where you are as soon as
39:0339 minutes, 3 secondsas soon as I think your customer that is very happy because you help them you they understand that is helping you back
39:1139 minutes, 11 secondsthey will be putting more thought to it because no one not everyone knows that but now they're like oh so you mean if I explain more on Google how you help me
39:1939 minutes, 19 secondsit will help you rank Hey, hey, it will help me a little bit more. And um you know, if you just do that, then you will
39:2639 minutes, 26 secondssee your Google reviews over time, they become very very specific. And that's one of the best way that you can rank
39:3339 minutes, 33 secondslike uh organically with with I guess less effort.
Chapter 30: Prompting specific Google reviews that help you rank
39:3739 minutes, 37 secondsYeah. And if you need help with your Google reviews testimonial collection, then um one of the other people that we
39:4639 minutes, 46 secondsdid a podcast with earlier, uh testimonial donut, they automate that process for you. So you can go check out
39:5339 minutes, 53 secondsthat podcast if you want to. They do a little like they also happen to have a factf find collection tool called CAM.
40:0140 minutes, 1 secondUm, not to hijack it, but it's one of those things where if you look at that podcast towards the end, we have a little demo.
40:0840 minutes, 8 secondsOh, yeah. Because, uh, like Google reviews is to me the best investment.
40:1340 minutes, 13 secondsWhatever you can do to get those reviews. So, if they are helping, I haven't seen the postcard. I will watch it after this one because I think and I
40:2140 minutes, 21 secondsknow that's what will give you the best return on investment. Um not only it helps it helps you to rank higher but
40:2940 minutes, 29 secondsobviously you can turn that into testimonial and people now they know it's hard to build trust it's hard to know is that the real deal. So you know obviously Google reviews helps you with
40:3840 minutes, 38 secondsconverting but it definitely has a great impact on uh how you rank and how you
40:4540 minutes, 45 secondsrank even on you know uh on the phone when people are searching for you even on Google map and things like that. Um, so that uh I would definitely invest in
40:5440 minutes, 54 secondsin ways to automate that because so you know it's hard to to just think of everything. So if you can have that automated it's it's a big win.
41:0541 minutes, 5 secondsNice. And um we've talked about a lot and I guess if we were to summarize a comp couple of the key points around SEO
41:1341 minutes, 13 secondsas a process um and how it would help someone what would you say and where would you take them through
41:2141 minutes, 21 secondsor for them to do if they wanted to uh well if they want to do it themselves or what you would do if you were doing it for them? So um so well first of all is
Chapter 31: Content structure, website speed, and Google profile tips
41:3141 minutes, 31 secondsyou know really focusing on a specific niche and um writing as much articles as
41:3941 minutes, 39 secondspossible and I guess depending on you don't want to force it but if you have long artic it's better maybe to have a
41:4741 minutes, 47 seconds12undword article than two 600word articles unless
41:5441 minutes, 54 secondsum unless the topic doesn't allow you to write. you don't want just to repeat just to add words. It has to be always unique and invaluable. But I would look
42:0242 minutes, 2 secondsfor those guides and resources that you can write about that will help that that will just get those more in-depth
42:0942 minutes, 9 secondsarticles and um you know if you have a webdev that is working with you then you can always ask to make the website
42:1742 minutes, 17 secondsfaster. It definitely has an impact and on the topic of Google reviews something as well that you you want to do is you go on your Google business profile and
42:2642 minutes, 26 secondsyou know there's a business description take some time think about how you can describe don't you know stuff keywords
42:3242 minutes, 32 secondsand just say you know I do like SMS but just explain what you're doing and make sure that you mention it once or
42:4042 minutes, 40 secondstwice um in the in your business description and fill up your details as much as you can the opening hours and everything that Google is asking you.
42:4942 minutes, 49 secondsIt's good to just provide the information. It always helps if you can upload more pictures of you and your team and all these type of things will help as well for your Google profile.
42:5942 minutes, 59 secondsAnd um and then you can really repurpose what you if you start doing blogs then you can just repurpose on LinkedIn or
Chapter 32: Repurposing blogs on LinkedIn and YouTube
43:0743 minutes, 7 secondsvice versa. And sometimes you write a blog and on LinkedIn you just make a quick teaser and say hey if you have ever wondered about XYZ then this is a
43:1643 minutes, 16 secondsblog we have just written and having LinkedIn linking back to your website regularly that that's good signals and
43:2343 minutes, 23 secondsthat helps as well with um so LinkedIn is quite powerful for SEO. So make sure that on the footer of your website you have a link to your own LinkedIn and vice versa.
43:3343 minutes, 33 secondsNice. Um, and I think lastly, where do you see the future of SEO and AI?
Chapter 33: The future of SEO: SEO is not dead
43:3943 minutes, 39 secondsSo, there's this ongoing joke in the within SEO people that we said SEO is dead. And the first time we had an article about SEO being dead was I think like six maybe now 10 years ago.
43:5343 minutes, 53 secondsIt's a forever discussion, but I think that's not true.
43:5743 minutes, 57 secondsYeah. as long as people need to find information and they are using whether it's Google whether it's ChBT whether
44:0744 minutes, 7 secondsTik Tok um the same principle apply and we are still dealing with a robot a al
44:1544 minutes, 15 secondsan algorithm so you still need to put all those efforts and even if something tomorrow is a new thing what you have
44:2344 minutes, 23 secondsdone they will use the same level of criteria to select you. So for me, it's, you know, it's still something that you
44:3244 minutes, 32 secondswant to be investing in and you can collect the reward for many years and which is a good thing with SEO because it's a little bit like I would mention
44:3944 minutes, 39 secondsgardening. So it's it's harder at the start takes a lot more effort to have that tree. But once the tree has very
44:4644 minutes, 46 secondsdeep roots and is grown, then every season it will give you apples. And SEO is very much with less effort, you know,
44:5444 minutes, 54 secondsif you put a lot of effort at the start, then with less effort, you can stick collecting those. And to me, that's, you know, not going anywhere. Things that
45:0245 minutes, 2 secondsmight evolve is um for instance, people now they might ask instead of typing, they use more the voice. They say, "Hey
Chapter 34: Voice search and how content is evolving
45:1045 minutes, 10 secondsGoogle, tell me, you know, how do I do an SMSF or should I invest again or should I refinance?" And perhaps the way people ask will be a little bit
45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsdifferent. So you want to adjust the content um to to that as well. But um for me it's not going anywhere and um
45:2845 minutes, 28 secondsis just maybe the way people are going to use it um is going to evolve but
45:3545 minutes, 35 secondsstill know what still one of the best source and I think it will be for for a while of revenue once you're very well
45:4445 minutes, 44 secondsestablished and if anything is you know if you want if you have a business that you want to sell then I think it has more value if you have a very high
45:5245 minutes, 52 secondsdomain high authority domain or even if you transfer your business to your kids the work that you do now because a bit
45:5945 minutes, 59 secondslike gardening it keeps growing and um I think it's something that even very long term you obviously it depends on the
46:0846 minutes, 8 secondsindustry depends on the service if tomorrow the industry is obsolete you know that's a whole other story but assuming you still are relevant and
46:1646 minutes, 16 secondspeople still need your services I still think they will be using Google or a similar um you know way to find you. So I think it's it's there for a while.
Chapter 35: Google, AI chat, Reddit — your digital referral partners
46:2846 minutes, 28 secondsNice. Um one of the things I've learned over the years with SEO is it um or even any of the like platforms whether it's
46:3746 minutes, 37 secondsAI, SEO, Reddit, chat rooms, it's your digital referral partner. Do you know what I mean? like you have this one
46:4546 minutes, 45 secondsperson in your network like a normal human that like for example you were saying an accountant who you are always
46:5346 minutes, 53 secondstop of mind for them to be the go-to person for this thing you are going to be their top broker for mortgages you're
47:0047 minutesgoing to be their top broker for asset whatever your particular niche is Google
47:0747 minutes, 7 secondsAI chat they're your top referral partner you just need to make sure that you've linked up in key words so that
47:1547 minutes, 15 secondsyou're top of mind and they've pulled you out in the digital world and chosen you. Exactly. And you mentioned a few
Chapter 36: Reddit and YouTube as SEO amplifiers
47:2447 minutes, 24 secondstimes, you know, Reddit is very powerful. You can see now it's actually ranking more and more. So, there are very funny ways now you can rank using
47:3347 minutes, 33 secondsReddit. We're doing some different testing. But, you know, it's good to go and comment and if you use Reddit yourself, if you like it, do it more.
47:4247 minutes, 42 secondsanswer people's questions and and go go for it and because it's it's quite powerful. Um and same same with like
47:5047 minutes, 50 secondsLinkedIn and um even like YouTube you know if you are comfortable with doing videos put them on YouTube and like you said the key word that mentioned is
47:5947 minutes, 59 secondslinking if you link everything then the engine the robot whether tomorrow is something else it will see oh look
48:0648 minutes, 6 secondsthat's a whole entity that is all linked to that one website to that one person or one business and as long as you
48:1448 minutes, 14 secondscreate this massive web of information is all linked to each other the right way, then I do believe that's something
48:2148 minutes, 21 secondsthat helps over time and um is not going to change tomorrow.
Chapter 37: Where to find Cyril
48:2648 minutes, 26 secondsNo. Thank you so much for this conversation, Seriel. If people wanted to reach out to you, where should they go and what should they do?
48:3448 minutes, 34 secondsWell, obviously LinkedIn is an easy one.
48:3648 minutes, 36 secondsThey can just search for my name, Sir Sansano. And if my accent is too strong, they can just Google for marketing
48:4448 minutes, 44 secondsagency pro like professional po and uh they will find my website and also my LinkedIn that will appear um there.
48:5348 minutes, 53 secondsPerfect. And we'll of course have them in the show notes as well. So um it's easy for you to navigate from here. Um again, thank you so much for this
49:0249 minutes, 2 secondsconversation. It was really great to have it with you.
49:0449 minutes, 4 secondsYeah, I loved it. I had a very good time. Thank you very much. Thank you.
49:0749 minutes, 7 secondsYou're welcome, Sarah. Catch you guys again. If you do have comments, questions, or want us to go through anything else, let us know. I'm sure
49:1449 minutes, 14 secondsSarah and I will be happy to do another information. Sorry. I'm happy to provide any information or any help if someone
49:2149 minutes, 21 secondsjust want to get started, you know, uh happy to to give uh some advice. Perfect. All right. catches.
