**Chapter 1: Intro & awards**
0:00
Hi and welcome to Broker Tools where we unpack the tools, systems, and strategies that help brokers optimize the way they work. I'm Katy, your host,
0:07
and today we are catching up with Jack from 4acre Financial. For those of you who don't know Jack, he has been
0:14
managing his broker service, 4acre financial, for the last 3 years. Um, in 2025, just last year, he won the new
0:22
office award with the um, advisor brokering awards and the growth award with Octus Coaching. He attributes most of his success to having a great team,
0:32
systems and marketing, plus a great go- getting attitude. Um, at Broker Tools,
0:38
because we have talked a lot about systems and processes and marketing from the service provider point of view, we thought it'd be great to have a practical real world conversation with
0:46
someone who is kicking some massive goals in their three years of operation and has some won some I'm trying to say
0:53
here is has won some awards along the way. Jack, welcome to the pod.
0:58
\[laughter\]
0:59
Thanks for having me, Katie. Good to see you again. And we are nominated for another best new office award for the better business awards that's coming up.
1:06
I forgot to mention that, but it's worth I've just want to get more and more medallions on my email signature, you know, just keep racking them up.
1:13
Load them up. Load them up. Load them up. \[laughter\]
**Chapter 2: Jack's background before broking**
1:17
Um, so the audience has a better understanding of where you started out um before you became an award-winning business. Um, can you give us a little
1:26
background of you? Where did you start before? Were you always in the mortgage broking business?
1:32
No. No. So, I guess it it all started when I bought my first property. You know, me and my dad was looking at the paper and he just, you know, oh, look,
1:40
there cuz we're always saving. Always was my goal and his goal was to help me get into property. So, he was looking at the paper back when you would look at
1:48
properties in the paper, you know, more than 10 years ago. and uh he just pointed out something that was really cheap that looked to be in my budget was
1:56
off the plan unit. And um yeah, we went and went and did that. We had a year and a half to prepare and get get the money
2:04
together, get the loans. And that was my first introduction to what a mortgage broker was and what they did. At the time, it didn't I thought it was cool.
2:13
you know, this this lady was working from her house and, you know, she just didn't, you know, she was just a
2:20
independent broker that just worked from her home and looked like she had a nice house and a good lifestyle. But I didn't know at the time that that's kind of what I would end up being in the future.
**Chapter 3: First property, second property, and a broker who sparked everything**
2:30
But, um, when it wasn't the the first one, it was actually the second broker that I dealt with that helped me understand how to get out equity and and use that to purchase a second property.
2:41
in and it was that that I was by that time I had I had really shown an interest in it and I was asking all the right questions to the broker and he
2:50
actually said to me, you know, you might have a a knack for this. Have you ever thought about getting into it? And um I just laughed it off, you know, because
2:57
at the time I was working in the family business as a milkman delivering milk.
3:02
But he he did kind of spark something in me that day and and it did put me down a path where I was listening to a lot of
3:09
podcasts like this one like um the the classics property couch, smart property investment show um you know really
3:18
getting an understanding of not just the finance but also the property side and yeah it kind of I I ended up getting my
3:26
certificate for but I didn't really action it until years later when I I just didn't think I I dabbled in
3:34
broking, right? I didn't actually become a credit rep, but that broker that sparked something in me. He he kind of helped me bring on like he said, "If you
3:42
bring on your own clients, I'll help you with the deals." Did it for a bit, never really got traction and kind of left it.
3:48
And then it was like three or four years later before I actually started up again. I the the family business had sold up. My dad was like, "Look, you got
3:56
to go find your own job. Like, we're not we're not anymore." And I thought, geez,
4:00
you know, I've got my real estate license. I'll go and do property management. And oh my god, was I rubbish at that.
4:07
I'd really I had four jobs in the space of about eight months. And it was really bad, you know, and at the time I was engaged to be married and I was, you
4:15
know, wanted to have kids. So there's a lot of pressure on me to try and make something work. So I thought maybe I'll just fall back on my certificate for in
4:23
finance and mortgage broking. had a look online and probably just as an entry-
4:28
levelvel role as a broker. It was the highest paying job I had ever had. It was 70,000. I was like, "Wow, this is great." So, got into the interview,
4:36
absolutely smashed it. Of course, I didn't have any experience, but they didn't have to know the full story about that, you know. I managed managed to get
4:44
the job. And on my first day, I walked into one of the BS, one of the brokers sitting next to me, and I I looked over and said, "Man, how do you use this calculator?" because they they all
4:52
thought I was so experienced and everything, but really I had just I was a good talker. So that's that's all you really need to be a good broker for the
5:00
most part. And um yeah, once I got in into that, I within three months I went commission only, started my own company
5:08
as a contractor and just started smashing it, eh? And um yeah, the rest is history.
**Chapter 4: From milkman to mortgage broker**
5:15
Wow, that is quite the epic journey. I mean, I didn't even know that Milkman still exists, but obviously on a commercial.
5:23
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I really do attribute a lot of my knowledge on strategy and property to those Milkman days because when you're that bored
5:32
driving for that like early hours of the morning, there's not much to listen to on the radio. So, I think listening to
5:39
those podcasts really gave me an understanding on the property side and the strategy side. And it basically showed me that everything I did was the
5:48
wrong thing to do. And that just made me want to learn even more about it so that I could, you know, not only do it better for myself, but then in in future, it
5:57
actually worked out me helping a lot of people not make those same mistakes. And I think that's why I was so successful because I I had all this knowledge and I
6:05
was really honest and open about my failures and and you know what trying to help the clients do better. And uh yeah,
6:12
that's that's kind of cool because obviously you started off in wanting to first buy a property and then you're on your journey of buying a second property
6:20
and then you you did that uh certificate for and I guess um like any entrepreneur trying to start getting your first
6:28
client and really trying to close those leads, it in and of itself, it's a learning journey. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was always driven.
6:36
Um not that I knew it. I I guess I really didn't realize my potential until I got into broking. I was always really
6:45
anxious growing up about what I wanted to do in life because obviously I wasn't really happy doing the milk run. It was very repetitive and it was a good, you know, you get money and stuff like that,
6:55
but it just wasn't I wasn't passionate about it. It wasn't making me excited. But then as soon as I got into broking,
7:02
I was able to have that same drive but actually feel good about helping people as well as making money. So yeah, very
7:10
grateful. just I feel like I kind of fell into it and I'm just very grateful that I was able to fall into it and do
**Chapter 5: Lessons from working inside a brokerage before going solo**
7:18
really well cuz now with the business that we've what we've been doing in the last 3 years and all the staff that we have and all the connections and and the
7:28
lifestyle that I have now with my kids and my wife like I'm just yeah very thankful to be here today which I guess is the whole growth
7:35
journey that you know um from my understanding of what most brokers want like when you're beginning out. Sure.
7:41
You might start with a brokerage um that's not your own um and you might learn um through them in the first instance.
7:50
Yeah.
7:51
Um and then you may decide to go out on your own adventure. What would you say have been the learnings between those two parts of you because that's that would be a journey.
**Chapter 6: What Jack would do differently: start in credit assessment**
8:01
I mean if I had my time again I would definitely spend a lot more time in credit assessment before jumping into
8:07
the broker land. uh and get a really good mentor because I I had to seek out
8:14
my own mentor to like a professional and actually just pay out of my own pocket to have a mentor because I really when I
8:22
first started I knew nothing and I I could talk which could get me out of a lot of stuff but I just don't think you need to make the mistakes
8:31
before just like just start from the bottom just start from the bottom do get good mentorship And you know, don't try
8:39
to jump into the deep end as a broker and a business owner straight off the bat. It's um not everyone can do it the
8:46
same way I did. And I've I've seen a lot of brokers get in and and fail and and get out of it when they may have been good brokers if they just stuck to it.
8:54
But it's a very cutthroat industry. It's very difficult. But um if I had my time again, I'd definitely start in credit
9:01
assessment. spend more time learning the fundamentals of you know all the little intricacies that are going to come up in in the world of finance.
**Chapter 7: Broking as a decision tree: why scenario experience matters**
9:09
Yeah. Because as you were saying it I realize now that it's it is a decision tree. So you as a broker are actually
9:16
going through a little decision tree of what is the right actual lending product for the client. And if you don't have enough scenario experience, you can't
9:25
even preassess them. And so having those little fundamentals down pat more so than selling um helps you make better conversations. Is that correct?
9:37
Yeah. Yeah. It's just experience. Like the more the more deals that you come through, the more scenarios that come across your desk, the more opportunity
9:45
you get to work through those scenarios and figure out what the pain points are. Go and speak to a bank and say, "Hey,
9:51
I've got this scenario." Okay. I had a really for some reason my memory was just great for remembering policy
9:59
because partly the way to implement your strategy with a client is to know policy and know how to place a deal and try to
10:07
work through the steps that are involved on not just that first step but what's the second step? What's the third step?
10:13
What what should you consider six months from now? like just knowing policy and being experienced enough to run through those scenarios is really what it's all
10:20
about outside of cuz once you get to a certain point, you have a credit team to do the calculations and um data entry
10:27
and and notes and things like that, but you're the one who has to place the deal and and actually speak to the client and
10:35
present to them. So, experience is everything and you you just in credit assessment, you're going to get all that experience you need. there's no need to
10:43
jump into broking straight away because once you go to broking, if you're one of the good ones, you're not going to do a whole lot of credit assessment after that. So, that's something that I I
10:52
regret. But at the time, I I really didn't have another option. You know, I really had some uh time to make up and I was getting married, want to have kids.
11:00
I was like I was in a bit of a hurry.
11:03
And I guess this is the gift of hindsight, isn't it? like now cuz I I understand sometimes you do broker
11:10
mentoring because you had it because of your experience uh you go out of your way to mentor other brokers through their journey.
11:18
Yeah.
**Chapter 8: How Fouracre mentors junior brokers**
11:19
Um that's a a good point just on that. Um we so we've got six six or seven brokers
11:26
at the business now and two of them require mentorship. So I I think part of the business model that we're going to
11:34
build in the future is really developing young brokers. Um so at the moment we we've built out our whole team in the
11:43
early stages of like client engagement role, doing phone calls, credit assessment role. I'm only putting people in those positions that have the
11:51
potential or the want to be a broker in the future. So, I'm trying to do it the right way for them so that they've got all the fundamental skills that is going
11:59
to that they're going to need in order to be a broker one day. And I I do I do actually enjoy helping the the younger
12:06
brokers try to help them and place deals and stuff like that. Even even previous employees that have started their own company, I I wish them well. You know,
12:16
if you have the guts to go out and start your own business, who am I to stand in your way? you know, I I got you on as an employee, but if you if you've got
12:25
bigger aspirations to want to start your own business, mate, good luck. My phone is always there. Give me a call. And and I think on a weekly basis, once or twice a week, I'm still getting calls.
12:35
Scenario this, scenario that. What do I do? That's that's the game we play. But yeah, I think um not everyone's want to is going to want to start their own
12:43
business, but if they've got the guts to do it, I'm I'm happy to help.
12:48
Yeah. And I I actually love that for you. And I say that because we know how hard the brokering industry is and um I
12:56
know there have been brokers that I have worked alongside and when they left their brokering firm um it was almost like do or die chop chop chop.
13:07
I know that all too well. Don't you worry. No, it's it's cutthroat on uh so as an employee, you basically have no
13:13
rights, but also as a as a broker that's competing for business, you know,
13:20
there's clawback. You know, you you could be working for you could be working on a deal and then settling it
13:27
and then, you know, 6 months later the entire commission is clawed back. So for established business that has a lot of
13:35
flow, you can absorb it, right? But for a new broker that's just starting out,
13:40
it could be devastating, especially if it happens in a couple couple times in a row. It's a very cutthroat industry. So, it's not it's not for the faint-hearted.
**Chapter 9: Running a brokerage differently: culture and support**
13:48
No. And and it's not made for the faint-hearted for sure. And I guess this is what you're saying is you've now got
13:57
like with your brokerage because of all this experience that you've had, you're trying to run it a little bit different as a firm. Not only are you uh mentoring your cugs, if we want to call them that,
14:08
um like the the newer to industry,
14:12
you're making sure that they have all the skills so that should they want to go out on their own, they can and you wish them well. If they want to stay,
14:19
yes,
14:22
um if you were to say what your best systems practices have been throughout this process, what would they be? Yeah.
**Chapter 10: Job Role segregation: the biggest systems shift of the last 12 months**
14:30
So within the last 12 months, we've done a really good job of segregating roles.
14:35
I think what what I was doing in the early stages when I I didn't have as many staff. We just we were all wearing so many hats, you know, and it wasn't
14:44
done in a process and there wasn't specialized roles. Right now we have oh
14:50
maybe 10 different actual titles for for for the team, right? and multiple different teams, but they all have a
14:58
specialized role and it's very segregated to a specific part of the process. Whereas in the early days, it was like you're Mr. Everything on this
15:06
part, you're Mrs. Everything on that part, and I'm Mr. Everything on everything. And it was just like it's really not the way to do it. So I think
15:14
what we've done well is figuring out the process that works for the amount of volume that we have coming in and then segregating the roles, making
15:22
it very specialized so that you you just do this part of the process and does done really well. And I'm not talking about the brokers here. I'm all talking
15:31
about the support staff because every every broker, every good broker that you see that gets all the clout, they've all got a team behind them. Nobody does it
15:39
by themselves. like all the extra compliance requirements that's that's put on the brokers these days, you know,
15:45
it's the banks don't even have to deal with it to the same level that we do,
15:48
you know, so we do need a a back office and support network to be able to do that. But yeah, if I had to say it was something, it was it would definitely be
15:55
the segregation and specializing roles that align with the process.
15:59
And that's more so your back office than your front office.
16:02
Yeah, I mean it all kind of ties into each other. Um I I essentially the brokers everything is the back office
16:08
except for the broker the bro and we we actually give the broker support on even just the initial client calls because just doing initial client calls not 100%
16:19
of those initial client calls are going to convert.
**Chapter 11: Keeping brokers focused on high-value work only**
16:22
So I I don't want the brokers to have to do initial fact finds taking down details like that. That's a low value
16:30
task. Like the high value stuff is the policy and the strategy. we can have someone to call the client, get the factf find details so that the broker
16:38
can just jump in, sift through and already know what to say, you know, and and the ones that go through that initial call, maybe gives a pay slip or
16:47
a driver's license here or there, then speak to the broker, the conversion is much better there. So, it's a lot less wasted time for the broker when we do it
16:56
that way. I find that there's just so much a broker's inbox is relentless.
17:01
There's just so much stuff coming through there and they're just like it's going to the team that it should. Like to add on calling cold leads and and
17:09
following up cold leads to that, it's just I think to remove that burden was um a big game changer for our business as well.
**Chapter 12: The minimum viable team for a small brokerage**
17:16
Nice. If you uh I guess were to mentor somebody who is a solo broker and who hasn't even got their first credit u
17:25
analyst team on them, what would you say the steps are? because obviously they're doing everything from front to back. And I know that we've just mentioned that we should silo it, but in your experience,
17:36
um, knowing what those definitions are,
17:39
what you thought they were when you first did your transition to what they are now, they're two different things from what I understand.
17:45
Yeah. And so, um, if you can talk through how you would suggest somebody else who's trying to really scale up how
17:54
to think about their business as a process, what would you recommend? Well, there's there's two ways to do it.
18:00
Like, some people might start off in a company that already has a support staff that do the low value stuff and do some
18:07
prep work for them. Other people might just be a oneman band in their business,
18:12
maybe with one other person. Um, I think obviously if you're if you're the oneman band, you've got to do everything
18:19
yourself, but if you've got just a small support team or just one or two support staff, I think most mediumsiz brokerages
18:29
could just get a lot done with two support. You know, one to do the credit assessment and basically credit assessment on a high level is
18:38
serviceability, pricing, valuation, loan structure. Once you know that it's services for the loan structure and the valuation that you've got, you can
18:46
pretty much send that off to to like a processing team or that that other person and just say, "Hey, this is the deal. I know a services. It's going
18:54
here. This is the pricing." Put that all into the system into the CRM. That's all data entry. You know, that that doesn't
19:02
require a highle credit assessor to jump in and type it all out in notes. like all the technical details was done
19:09
during the credit assessment, confirming the the loan structure with the vow and the pricing. Once that's done, get it off. You know, that that's the way we do
19:17
it on a larger scale. But if you just had a small team of three, you know, the broker does the calls, um does the strategy, sends it to the credit analyst, check that a service is here,
19:28
get a pricing, get a vow. Okay, that works. Bang. Send it over to your processor. Get them to do the data entry. Ask for all the compliance
19:34
documents. save and rename documents. So I think if on a small level you just had two two support you you should probably run it like that.
19:43
Great. So you're saying anybody who's obviously starting off as a silo if they were to first you know launch themselves
19:51
then the there's two probably key back office one a credit analyst and the other person is a processor.
19:57
Yeah. Yeah. And then um the gift of CRM is that you know data entry can happen
20:04
real time and in the world of AI some of that can be automated. So you don't even have to do half of that data entry
20:12
anymore. Um what would what are your current systems? What because you have a CRM I think is it sales tracker?
**Chapter 13: Salestrekker 2.0 and current automations**
20:20
Sales tracker. Yeah. So they just launched a new CRM. Um, it was a bit of an adjustment period and I think in knowing that 2.0 selfer 2.0 was coming,
20:31
we kind of didn't make major changes to our the way that we use the system because we knew there was changes coming. Yeah.
20:39
Now, now that it's here, we're starting to really work in some automations to so that deals flow within the teams and clients get followed up automatically.
20:49
But, you know, they've they've got AI like next to the compliance notes section, they've got little AI things in
20:56
there that you can um you know just generate,
21:00
click a button and generate. And I'm sure that other support staffs would would just do that anyway. Like it's a no-brainer. Like the the the stuff that
21:08
you can get from AI is just so accurate at the moment. It's just I mean especially with policy like there's Wiki Broker, brokeredia,
**Chapter 14: Using AI for lender policy scenarios**
21:17
um finance and coffee, you know, you have your communities where you ask little scenarios. Chuck that out the window. Now, honestly, like I don't even
21:25
I actually am in some of those groups and when I see them pop out, they'll ask a scenario question, I copy and paste it, put it into Gemini or Grock and then
21:34
send the answer back to them and they're like, wow, thank you so much. It's like took me five . You can do this.
21:41
Read it. I'm like, that's 100% right.
21:43
That is that's perfect. You've given like lenders to reach out to things to consider. It's just it's great. So for policy because all the lender policies and their updates, they're all online,
21:54
right? So AI is drawing on all of that and it's just it's perfect like you can't compete with that.
**Chapter 15: AI fact finds and chatbots: not yet, for now**
22:01
No. And and I think scenario the um AI application is also joining into uh sales tracker as well. So um sales
22:10
tracker can also have those features in there um which makes that whole streamlined process for you. Yeah, I think they're also there's a lot of
22:19
companies that are triing AI uh factbind like conversational factbinds. I've seen
22:25
that I've actually I don't think I think the the actual technology is ready. I just don't know if the market is ready for it.
22:34
Like I don't know if uh customers would be happy with having a conversation with an AI giving personal details and and
22:43
stuff like that. I think it's coming for sure, but just like the older generations, you'd probably lose a fair bit of customers if you launch that
22:50
companywide. But I I me personally, I've tested it like when I'm trying to book at a restaurant, they're asking me all these details like that's pretty good,
22:58
you know, use that. But I just don't know if the I would implement that across the board for my business. I
23:05
think that initial core being a bit more personable and I think that's a bit more pleasant to deal with.
23:11
Yeah. And I I think this is also al also a great conversational topic is that you're not actually just jumping straight into AI. You're doing a you
23:20
know like sure you'll do your lender scenarios in AI um but you're not incorporating necessarily SMS chat bots right now.
23:29
Yeah. But it's not it's not I know that there's a lot of brokers that are doing it. I know my flaws. Me personally, I'm not a tech guy. I know I'm only 30. I
23:38
should probably be more into it. I'm just not a tech guy. Like I I I'm really good at sales strategy. I'm a good
23:47
leader within the business, but tech that ain't me. So I have to hire like coaches and and other businesses that kind of fill that gap for me. But yeah,
23:59
it's it's not me. So partly it's it's my opinions on where that where AI is and how soon it's going to be implemented
24:06
across the board. But the other part is that I'm not one of those guys like a mutual friend of ours. The guy he's very techy, you know, he loves that stuff.
24:16
So, um I just I'm just aware I'm just self-aware that that's not me. Um but sure, I'm I'm I'm looking at it closely
24:23
because I know that there's a lot of changes that are going to come into the market and we're already seeing aggregators adopt things like that. So,
24:30
yeah, when the time comes, I'll I'll be jumping on it, but I just don't think it's there right now for me. which I think is a great thing because you can
24:39
still scale and grow um which you are doing in kicks and stride without it.
**Chapter 16: Just hit $500M on the loan book**
24:45
Yeah. Yeah. We just um just hit 500 million on the book as of last month which was a big milestone. Half a
24:53
billion can say that. So I'm going to start planning the billion dollar party.
24:58
\[laughter\]
24:58
Yeah. Gold suits. Everyone wearing gold suits. Nice. \[laughter\]
25:05
It's one of those things where like some people are tech enabled but they're not really growing their uh their loan books
25:13
or doing the sales. And I think if you were to help people scale up or take them on a journey of what are the key
25:21
pillars to making them have a stronger uh growth business, what would you say that is? Because technology is great but
**Chapter 17: Leads first, systems second**
25:29
it can only do so much. Well, you need the business. You need the inflow. Like you you're either going to have referral partners or you're going to be
25:38
marketing. So, if you don't have the inflow of business that's steady enough for you to build out those systems cuz
25:45
the only reason I was able to build out a team of, you know, now 40 strong was because we had the business coming
25:52
through the front door, right? And it was consistent. If we didn't have that,
25:56
I would never have built it out. I would have just been like keeping it as lean as possible because to some businesses the business could just stop overnight,
26:05
you know? So, you've got to have the business coming in whether that's referral partners, really strong referral partner relationships
26:13
or marketing. So, pick which one, do a bit of both. Figure that out first. Once you can get some steady flow coming in,
26:22
then you can start to work out the systems, the processes, segregating the teams, specializing it. But yeah, I I
26:30
think and for a lot of brokers, not the established ones, but for for a lot of brokers are just starting out, they all say the biggest pain point is leads,
**Chapter 18: Why bought leads rarely work and personal brand does**
26:38
like trying to get quality leads because you you can m I get approached all the time from companies that are like, "Oh,
26:45
we do these blah blah blah blah the best leads." Sure, mate. I know exactly what leads you're selling and they're rubbish. Like the the ones that you get
26:53
from online marketing and things like that, buying packets of leads, they're always horrible. You you have if you're going to do it online, you have to have
27:02
a personal brand. You have to have credibility. People have to see you and know you. Now, when people come through the front door, they're not talking to me, right? They know it's my company.
27:10
They're not talking to me. But when I every now and again when I do talk to them, I introduce myself. They're like, "Oh, I've seen you on the podcast. Oh,
27:17
I've seen you online. I was like, that's credibility. Like, you might not think that posting every day actually matters,
27:24
but it does. Like, it really does. If people have seen you and they they trust you, they're going to work with you more likely than not. Um, it's not always
27:33
just about generating business. It's like getting your name out there,
27:36
getting your face out there, trying to be seen. That's really Yeah, the personal branding stuff is super underrated.
**Chapter 19: Working with Sam Panetta and Christian**
27:45
Yes. And um we had uh we've had a couple of conversations on this podcast with different broker coaches. We've had Sam Panetta and your favorite coach as well.
27:54
Um I work with Sam. I work with Sam and I work with Christian. Those are the two coaches that I'm working with out now. So shout out to them.
28:02
Yeah. Which is, you know, this is the thing because the gift of both of those coaches is that they focus on two different areas. So Sam's great for
28:10
content and um and Christian is great for systems and that's how you got them in your business helping you.
28:18
Yep. Yep. No, they're they're like they should join forces. I mean because you can pretty much if you've got some money
28:25
to invest and you work with those two guys, they've got your whole business covered. Honestly, they they've got you all covered from marketing to the tech.
28:33
Like Yeah. Really good.
28:36
Yeah. And and what you're ultimately saying is that personal brand or any kind of brand
28:43
recognition is probably the key thing because this whole no like and trust component because of the world we're now
28:50
starting to enter into with AI and even fake um you know personas out there.
28:57
The way you talk, the way you actually speak, people are starting to get to know you as a human and they almost pre-qualify themselves before they even reach you.
29:06
Yeah. Yeah.
29:10
Um if you were to work through any other strategies for people because obviously leads is a big core part. Um and then
29:19
having them have the first \[clears throat\] call. it. In my experience, um, having worked with some some other brokers, it's it's the call
29:29
structure sometimes that a broker goes through that may not land because they're too busy trying to data dump is
29:35
what I call it, um, on a phone call. uh what would you say would be I guess a a
29:42
good way to have some of those beginning conversations so that if you're new to the industry you want to be able to somehow do at least a first close.
**Chapter 20: Call structure and the gift of the gab**
29:53
Yeah. So part of me thinks that you're either born for that you've got the gift of the gab or you just don't have it
30:01
like and as much as like I've got some really technical smart people in the business and then I've got some some
30:09
other people that maybe lack the technical knowledge and skills but can really talk well and and relate to the other person on the on the other line.
30:19
the person that relates to the other person is is going to get better success in sales and in broking because it is a sell. You know, it's it's not so much
30:28
about the technical aspect. The person on the other line wants to wants to know you, wants to trust you. And it's not always about what you're saying, it's how you're saying it.
30:38
So, part of me feels like that you can't you can't teach that. Like you're either born that way or you're not. And like
30:46
that's how typically you would end up as a credit analyst or you end up as a broker. It's based on how personable you are and and if you
30:54
can talk and you got the gift of the gap really. Okay. And so if you wanted to hone it,
31:01
you know, it's really having the ability or the willingness to get the gab if you could.
31:08
I don't know if you can teach it. I don't know. Luckily, I was born with it or so I've been told. But I just don't know if if you can actually teach it
31:15
because I've had brokers come through that um or what people that want to be brokers come through that want to try to
31:23
but like I listen to their calls and I'm like gez I don't know if the sales is is come naturally to you and I because I've
31:31
never had to do any sort of sales training and I've never had to have any sort of like implement any sort of sales training to to my staff. I know it's out there,
31:42
but yeah, maybe I'm just naive to that or inexperienced because I've never like taken someone that I thought maybe you're not the best salesman, given them
31:50
training or or you know, helped them get training and then seen him come out the other side. I haven't seen it personally. I'm not doubting that it can happen,
31:59
\[laughter\]
31:59
but I don't have the skills to make it happen.
**Chapter 22: How to reach Jack**
32:02
Yeah. Okay. So in your frame of reference, if you were to take someone on a journey as a mentor, you would you
32:10
kind of like just pre-check their their capabilities. And if they don't even sound like they could have a good conversation, you would probably
32:18
redirect as to maybe focusing on a different area of business because as you're saying,
32:24
the large part of being a broker is sales and communication and being relatable. Yeah. Yeah. That that's my experience.
32:31
So, I'm not doubting that people can change and, you know, even if they're not the best talker or communicator,
32:38
they can't get those skills. I, you know, they probably could. I've just,
32:42
that's just not my area to to get people from that place to to where they want to be. I haven't really, yeah, haven't gone down that path myself.
32:52
Hey, that's okay. And I think this is this is part of what I call the important parts of conversations that
33:00
you and I are having because everybody has their skill set. Everybody has a strength. Everybody has a weakness. It's
33:07
about knowing what works for you and what doesn't. And if you are trying to get more leads and your conversations are hit and miss, it's it's either
33:16
finding the right coaching or support to round that out or change that or um redirecting your career.
33:26
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is cutthroat.
33:28
It's a cutthroat industry. Can't sugar coat it.
33:32
No. And that's pretty accurate. Yeah. So, um, if you were
33:39
to give a recommendation or help somebody on their broker journey, what would you say? What would you offer?
33:48
Yeah. So,
33:50
listen to podcasts like this. Um, the advisor podcast. There's specific broker like specific broker podcast just
33:58
talking to um people in finance. uh try to think about something that you want to niche in, like an area that you want
34:06
to specialize in because it's very this day and age it's very easy to target niches and if you do that one thing
34:13
really well it'll you know you more likely be able to generate business from it. um starting credit assessment for
34:22
sure. Get the technical knowledge that you need cuz all brokers need to have that technical knowledge and um yeah I think that'll that's good. Yeah,
34:33
I think that that's a few things that you'd focus on.
**Chapter 21: Final advice for brokers starting out**
34:37
Perfect. And like you said, if you are like not even starting in this industry,
34:43
sure having a certificate for will get you a door into the um \[clears throat\]
34:48
beginning, but it doesn't really teach you anything. I have a certificate for too, and I did not learn anything. Um,
34:54
and I've not tried to be a broker. I've decided to focus on CRM because that is my skill. \[laughter\]
35:00
Yeah. Unfortunately, it is like, and I know that there's courses out there like Christian has a a credit assessment course.
35:10
It's not his the first one he's done.
35:12
He's actually done a few and he's refined it. So courses like that that's actually going to help you be a broker.
35:18
Um I wish the SER 4 was was really going to help but just doesn't. It just doesn't. Yeah.
35:26
And so um it's one of those things where sure do your set for but really find a great
35:33
mentor to work alongside and and get your credit and analyst skills down so that you understand the workflow. And
35:42
then then really focus and hone in on building leads, putting out your brand,
35:48
start networking, cuz without leads, the rest of the system building just won't work. Yeah. I think like getting the niche,
35:55
getting really clear on what your niche is and it could, you know, just something that you're passionate about.
36:02
Like for me, it was helping people buy investment properties, scaling investment portfolios. Like that's something that I was interested in
36:09
personally and that's just I I kind of fell into that niche without realizing I was targeting it. I I actually went into
36:17
a bunch of um buyers agent groups on on social media and I was just having as many meetings as possible and it was
36:26
like only at the end of the day I think I had like 30 meetings total over over a six-month period but there was two main
36:34
referral partners that I kept and had for years and built my whole business off off supporting their clients. So
36:41
yeah, I think just target a niche and speak to that niche online and and you know try to network and yeah, great
36:49
mentorship is is definitely going to help.
**Chapter 22: How to reach Jack**
36:51
Nice. If people wanted to reach out to you, Jack, and or maybe get some mentorship, what where should they go and what should they do?
36:59
Yeah, so yeah, Google forfinancial.com.au or um mortgagefreeman on Instagram. You can just DM me there. Um yeah, I'm
37:08
always happy to have a chat, help people out.
37:11
Perfect. Thank you so much for joining me on this pod. If anybody has more questions for Jack, feel free to put them in the comments below. Uh like,
37:18
share, and do all the good things. Um thank you so much again, Jack, for joining me on this conversation. No, thank you. It was great. Great fun.
37:27
Okay. Bye. Bye.me
